Musings on Russell

[AtypicalSororityGirl]

I just want to say that I think the Russell books rescued me from awkward times in early adolescence, and I'm grateful for that. Every skinny bespectacled girl whose friends are "weirding out" deserves such quality literature at that time in her life. Now, as a college student/sorority girl/working journalist at 20, I've come to love the books even more as I re-read them: I catch all the nuances I was blind to, and I laugh at the punch lines I couldn't get before. The only one I threw down, exasperated, was Justice Hall . . . to me, it simply doesn't exist. I just didn't like it. I am absolutely dying for a movie of BEEK to come out . . . oh the joy! I found the BBC radio play of BEEK fall semester 2006 and got a kick out of it. . . my favorite line is still "Damn you, Holmes! Help me through this window before you have to scrape me off the pavement!"

[wsmvgn]

For me, part of the charm of the Russell books is that they're lots of genres all at once. Since they've got Sherlock Holmes, they have to be mysteries. Since they've got a love interest, they must be romances. As Russell starts out at 15, they're clearly coming of age books. My experience with that genre is mostly Andre Norton's science fiction works, and at some point I realized they all had a pretty simple plot: plucky youth succeeds. King's coming of age theme is far richer and more complicated.

Then again, in an article by one of my favorite authors, the late Donald Hamilton, he says that he's always writing about love, in all his books. That initially surprised me (silly me, I thought he was writing about assasination) but with that clue I can see it in the books, admittedly more in some that others. Certainly, in the Russell books, King is writing about love.

[vicki]

I love that while the Russells are enjoyable on a surface level, they also have so much intelligence, wit and information for a hungry mind to gobble up along with the rip-roaring adventure. There are deeper themes layered under the derring-do: family, identity, spirituality and yes, love in many of its facets. It's great to be able to enjoy a book on multiple levels, as you can with the Russells.

[alina]

the Russell books rescued me from awkward times in early adolescence

I know exactly how that feels! The Russell books got me through much of my adolescence too!

Oh, and where did you find the BBC radio play? I was wondering where I should go to find a copy of it...

The Russell books really do have many layers; I've been realizing the complexity more and more as each year goes by. It's wonderful! I even wrote an English paper on Ronnie's Italian priest, Holmes, and sex appeal as mirrored by today's society. It forced me to iron out some issues I'd had with the second book. Wonderful! I'm now determined to focus on at least one aspect of each of the books to clarify them in my mind's eye. We'll see how well I follow through!

[vicki]

I wish I'd had the Russells when I was in my early teens. Those were rough waters, and good books were like islands I could crawl up onto for a while to relax, catch my breath and gather strength to face the waves again.


Oh, and where did you find the BBC radio play? I was wondering where I should go to find a copy of it...



Alina, I have two copies of that play--it's a 2-CD set. I'd be glad to lend you one of my copies via snail-mail. Just PM me if you're interested. In the alternative, I think they've started selling them somewhere at the BBC site. I couldn't find any for sale a few years ago, so I got mine from a radio enthusiast who'd recorded it when it first aired.

[AtypicalSororityGirl]

Oh lord, exactly where I found it is kind of fuzzy. I was searching Mary Russell on the Internet, and it was on a blog on some Web site I found. I know that is unspecific and doesn't help in the least, but if you Googled "BBC Radio Plays" and tried to find it, maybe that would get you somewhere. Good hunting.

[Strawberry Curls]

The address to the link for the BEEK radio play is:

http://gaudynight.multiply.com/music/item/7

If that doesn't get you there, email me off list and I will send you the link. I liked this production, but they changed just enough to annoy me.

[Carlina]

No Russell for me in those turbulent teenage years..nope...I just had Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel with a little Stephen King :rolleyes: ...oh well...it was worth the wait because I can really understand the layers within them.

Did someone say Holmes and sex appeal? Now there is a delicious topic. I did find the central issues in MRW rather interesting and I must confess a rather unique Holmes comes out in that book...one I would never have expected to see and that kiss...*Coughs and clears throat*

Um...what were we talking about...oh yes MRW..there were some interesting things in that book by all means. I guess I should save that for the discussion?

[vicki]

I guess I should save that for the discussion?


You can if you want, but it's your call. I think the Club discussion of MREG will be a little different from the discussions over here in the LRK Reading Room, if only because of LRK's presence over in the Club Room. So we may end up repeating some stuff from this area of the VBC over in some of the Club threads. It's all cool. :)


*Coughs and clears throat*



Hehehehe!

[sherrie221]

I for one would love to know details of the instances to which MRH refers in MREG when she states "Two years before,at the beginning and at the end of a tense and terrifying case, we had each made a faint overture in the male-female dance..."

Does anyone know who is willing to share?

Sherrie

[Strawberry Curls]

I have always thought the two incidents to which Russel was referring with the statement "...at the beginning and at the end of a tense and terrifying case, we had each made a faint overture in the male-female dance..." as Holmes opening his arms to her and holding her when she agrees to the plan of alienation ("an then a miracle happened") and at the end of that case Russell rushed into her rooms in Oxford and threw her arms around Holmes and hugged him when he appeared there and she knew who their prey was at last and they could talk again.

At least that is my take on it.

[Carlina]

This is definitely one of those ask Laurie things...um..the male-female dance..does that not refer to the...*coughs uncontrollably* Yes...Pray tell. If they had discussed taking their relationship to another level..the dancing and what not...one wonders. So many unanswered questions...

I wonder as for MRW...I love that scene in the bolt hole..Holmes the cook, Holmes with the apron, Holmes the flirt...it was all too much for me really. I couldn't stop giggling...like a giddy school girl. For those you that don't know me, I am a die hard Sherlock Holmes fan and to see him like this was...entirely too cute...

[irish]

No Russell for me in those turbulent teenage years..nope...I just had Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel with a little Stephen King :rolleyes: ...oh well...it was worth the wait because I can really understand the layers within them.

Did someone say Holmes and sex appeal? Now there is a delicious topic. I did find the central issues in MRW rather interesting and I must confess a rather unique Holmes comes out in that book...one I would never have expected to see and that kiss...*Coughs and clears throat*

Um...what were we talking about...oh yes MRW..there were some interesting things in that book by all means. I guess I should save that for the discussion?

Glad I am not the only one who thinks of Holmes as the sexy older man. Dark, mysterious, but such a gentleman.......... (my husband thinks I'm crazy, but I think he's jealous ;) )

[Carlina]

Glad I am not the only one who thinks of Holmes as the sexy older man. Dark, mysterious, but such a gentleman.......... (my husband thinks I'm crazy, but I think he's jealous ;) )

Well then I guess that makes two of us ;) . Yes my hubby is a little taken aback by the whole thing too...but he's adapting...slowly..

[wsmvgn]

I know exactly how that feels! The Russell books got me through much of my adolescence too!


Sigh. I went with Robert Heinlein; I think I got a bad deal.

[vicki]

Glad I am not the only one who thinks of Holmes as the sexy older man.


Yah, he's got the S.A. thing going on. Most definitely.


I can't picture Holmes in my head as 40yrs plus her senior. I somehow picture him in his 50's and he's quite happy there so I leave it alone.


I think there's a passage in A Letter of Mary where Russell talks about how Holmes often seems much younger than he actually is. I know people like that--they just don't seem to age as fast as most people. Some of it is probably lifestyle, but I've also read that aging depends heavily on genetic factors. Maybe Holmes just got lucky in the genetic lottery.

[Carlina]

Let's see...Russ is 21 when they marry and Holmes is 60-61. So yes, there is a forty year age difference, but it is always commented that he moves and seems like a man 20 years younger. Vicki is right, this is mentioned in LoM when he returns to their rooms and takes all his make up off...also a lovely romantic interlude there...blink and you miss it..."I suppose you wish me to shave" is the cue ;) .

It is referred to again in LR when he is leaving Russ's home somewhere in the beginning of his narrative...He cracks his spine and mutters those priceless words, "I'm getting to old for this." Then it says he walks away and like a man 20 years younger...Holmes, dear, you are just never too old...

[alina]

The address to the link for the BEEK radio play is:

http://gaudynight.multiply.com/music/item/7



Oh my goodness; thank you soooo much! Once I'm done traveling all around the north, I will definitely spend a day listening! <does a happy dance of victory>

And on the subject of Holmes's Sex Appeal: part of my last paper for my Intro To English Major class had to do with just that subject! I analyzed Ronnie's Italian priest anecdote from a reader response point of view. Fun times!

[Kerry]

I, too, would have adored to have Russell around during my angst-y years. And I, too, got a raw deal with Heinlein, and even more so with Ayn Rand. Yikes!

Thinking back on it, it doesn't seem like there was a whole lot of good women-centered fiction in the "coming of age" category when I was in my teen years (that would have been in the mid 70's). It was all Gothic Romances (fun, but hardly the stuff of enlightenment) and sci fi (Asimov, Clark, et al. wrote some good books, but again, not what a teen-aged girl needs to make her feel strong and worthy). Maybe that's why I love reading that stuff now.

So let me ask this, for those among you who are into the YA scene -- got any good books like that to recommend? :D

[KarenB]

Kerry - without searching my shelves, I can think up some:
Sharon Shinn's TruthTeller's Tale, Dreammaker's Magic, and there is one more about a secret keeper.
for younger girls 7-10 the American girl series are good - a little sanitized, but not overly so
the Dear America series and the Royal Diaries are good for slightly older than the Amer.Girl but into history
all of Tamora Pierce's books (Wild Magic, Lady Knight, etc.)
Mercedes Lackey's Arrow of the Queen

If you want more let me know.:)

[sherrie221]

Kerry, David Eddings' books, to which farmwifetwo referred, are excellent for his very strong female characters. In fact Eddings freely credits his wife Leigh for everything from inspiration up to and including co-authorship of his many novels.

Unfortunately Leigh Eddings passed away earlier this year, and her influence will be greatly missed.

Sherrie

[alina]

I thought I'd add in my two cents.

Elizabeth George Speare--I've read her novels The Witch of Blackbird Pond and The Bronze Bow, both great novels. Blackbird Pond is great for growing girls!

A second affirmed recommendation of Tamora Pierce novels. I've only read her Immortals series and the first of the Trickster novels, but from what I've read, she's fantastic for teen girls (and girls going into their second year of college...)!

That's all I can think of for strong girl protagonists during my teen years; I was stuck with many male-centered literature but didn't mind, really. I just forgot gender by the end of the book and applied what I'd learned as necessary in my life!

[Kerry]

Thanks for the recommendations, everyone! I've read most of Lackey, and regularly re-read The Arrows of the Queen (but my favorite is By the Sword -- Kerowyn is my ultimate heroine!). I also enjoyed the first Eddings -ology I read, in no small part because of his female characters, but started finding him (and them) quite repetative (sp???) by the end of the second one. By the third one, I was starting to find them annoying -- condescending, predictably and stereotypically maternalistic, and almost self-consciously uber-feminine. And that was a real pity, because I do enjoy his overall story-telling style and his choices of themes. Of course, this is my reading only -- I don't expect others to come anywhere close to agreeing with me! :D .

[vicki]

So let me ask this, for those among you who are into the YA scene -- got any good books like that to recommend? :D


I'll second Alina's Elizabeth George Speare recommendation--The Witch of Blackbird Pond rocks. And I hear great things about Tamora Pierce, although I still need to read her stuff.

Like Karen, I love Sharon Shinn's stuff--some of my favorites are the Archangel books and Summers at Castle Auburn.

One of my favorite girl-power writers is Robin McKinley. Start with The Blue Sword, then go to The Hero and the Crown, and on to her excellent fairy-tale adaptations. Some excerpts from her work are on this page (http://www.robinmckinley.com/RM_Work.html).

Garth Nix has a terrific YA trilogy with very strong female protagonists. The books are Sabriel, Lirael and Abhorsen. The wait for Abhorsen was excruciating--a bunch of us at Readerville even had a group called T.A.A.P.A--"Those Anxiously Awaiting the Publication of Abhorsen," and we had buttons and the whole nine yards. It was pretty funny.

One of the most unjustly overlooked YA books I know of is The Road Home by Ellen Emerson White (her books and female characters are generally awesome, by the way), which has a great female protagonist.

One of my favorite female protagonists ever is the title character of Catherine, Called Birdy by Karen Cushman. If I could pick out several YA (or YAable) female characters in literature to go to lunch with, Catherine would be one of them because she is strong, hilarious, kind and intelligent. And she is able to adapt to very limiting circumstances without losing her fire or spunk. I also loved Cushman's female protagonists in The Midwife's Apprentice and The Ballad of Lucy Whipple.

Jane Austen also created some strong female characters who can adapt to a limiting environment without losing themselves in the process. My favorite is the delightful Elizabeth Bennet from Pride and Prejudice, who would also be on the afore-mentioned lunch-list. In fact, I named my daughter after her.

Also on the lunch list would be Lyra Belacqua from Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy--another strong, fiery and funny heroine, and Jo from Little Women. And Mary Russell would be on it too, of course. :)

Other excellent female YA (or YAable) protagonists can be found in Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson (a fabulous book), Ella Enchanted by Gail Carson Levine, The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle by Avi, Walk Two Moons by Sharon Creech and Midnight Hour Encores by Bruce Brooks (another unjustly overlooked book). Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles has a strong female character, although she's not the central character. I also liked the main character in two very funny books--Vegan Virgin Valentine by Carolyn Mackler and Feeling Sorry for Celia by Jaclyn Moriarty.

These are the ones I can think of right off the top of my head, although I'm sure I'll probably kicking myself tomorrow for overlooking something utterly key and fabulous.

[The Grey Badger]

Thanks for the recommendations, everyone! I've read most of Lackey, and regularly re-read The Arrows of the Queen (but my favorite is By the Sword -- Kerowyn is my ultimate heroine!). I also enjoyed the first Eddings -ology I read, in no small part because of his female characters, but started finding him (and them) quite repetative (sp???) by the end of the second one. By the third one, I was starting to find them annoying -- condescending, predictably and stereotypically maternalistic, and almost self-consciously uber-feminine. And that was a real pity, because I do enjoy his overall story-telling style and his choices of themes. Of course, this is my reading only -- I don't expect others to come anywhere close to agreeing with me! :D .

Kerowyn is neat except for her utter contempt for the hard and necessary work of running a manor. She's unsuited to it, that's clear, but she has a stereotypically masculine attitude towards's 'women's work' as something any fool can do and only fluffheaded fools would like.

Contrast that with one of MZB's Free Amazon Guildmothers who tells Magda that she gets recruits who think they're 'too stupid' to learn to read and write, although how anybody who can (long list of low-tech housewife competencies here) can be considered 'stupid' is beyond her. Of course, the Guildmother has had to deal with the logistics of running a medieval-level household every day of her life.

And please note that during the REAL Middle Ages there was a lot of rather formulaic derogation of women ,but nobody imagined that the job of the chatelaine was easy or could be done by an idiot. In fact, Christine de Pisan's book could be rewritten for our times as "Bos Lady: Advice for the female CEO."

[Kerry]

Kerowyn is neat except for her utter contempt for the hard and necessary work of running a manor. She's unsuited to it, that's clear, but she has a stereotypically masculine attitude towards's 'women's work' as something any fool can do and only fluffheaded fools would like.

Hmmm . . . good point. I'm going to have to go back and re-read those parts. I never took Kerowyn's attitude as utter contempt, and I definitely took from her musings the clear understanding that it was hard, complicated work. Of course, if she were contemptuous, we could charitably chalk it up to the arrogance of youth (I don't know about anyone else, but I had plenty of that at her age, and was pretty snotty with it!). Alternatively, we could also chalk it up to Lackey's occasional inability to convey nuance effectively -- not like our LRK ;) .

[alina]

Garth Nix has a terrific YA trilogy with very strong female protagonists. The books are Sabriel, Lirael and Abhorsen.

A friend highly recommended this trilogy to me; I've been meaning to read it for ages. She has some of the best taste in books!

My favorite is the delightful Elizabeth Bennet from Pride and Prejudice, who would also be on the afore-mentioned lunch-list.

Ah, Lizzy Bennet is one of my favorites to talk about! Well, she and Beatrice from Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing, but that was because I played her opposite in a gender bender one time!

Jo from Little Women.

Another favorite character due to her brashness and artistic sensibility without the crazy depression. My mother always called me her Bethy-Jo after reading the novel: hard-working reader, dramatic writer, and introverted piano-player all wrapped into one.

Ella Enchanted by Gail Carson Levine, The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle by Avi

I CANNOT believe I forgot these! I absolutely love these books, especially Charlotte Doyle. My 7th grade book club discussed it in depth, and I was in love!

Oh, this brings up such good memories of my middle school years...a hard thing to do, indeed!

[Lady Natalie Bennet]

I just want to say that I think the Russell books rescued me from awkward times in early adolescence, and I'm grateful for that.

See, I'm mostly the odd girl out...I don't party, I don't have a lot of friends, and I am practically a tomboy.

The thing that I really liked about these stories was that age didn't seem to matter when it was a "meeting of true minds". Russell and Holmes are perfect for each other, despite their age difference. I would like to think, despite the censure that is sometimes involved with such a relationship, that it is possible to find love with someone who is older than you. Those stories give me hope, because I'm looking at people my own age and rolling my eyes...and I'm only 19!

Laurie R. King did a very good job of portraying both of them and their deepening relationship.

[Kiyomi]

Robin McKinnley's book 'Sunshine' is one of the best books I've ever read. It is very much a coming of age story, extremely non-traditional, and despite the alternate reality setting where vampires,demons,etc. co-exist with humans it is very emotionally honest. That said there a some parts which are a bit more adult than is appropriate with very young readers but the book is generally found in the young adults section and teenagers shouldn't find it shocking.

David Weber is an excellent writer of fictional female characters. I suspect his wife is a big influence on his style of writing. He does tend to write military space opera of one variation or another, but even if you don't like that type of story he does have an excellent fantasy series starting with 'Oath of Swords' followed by 'The War God's Own' both of which you can read free online at the publishers website Baen Free Library (http://www.baen.com/library/) along with over a hundred other books by various authors. You won't like all the books in the free library, I don't think anyone could there are so many different authors, but it's wonderful to try out new authors and read the first book or two in a series before commiting to buying the dead tree versions.

[sherrie221]

But I was away on holidays and then school ended. I just read the post about Eddings. I liked his Belgariad/Malloreans. I liked the next 6 books... the Sparhawk ones and this last set... I cannot get into. Which is unfortunate since I really enjoyed the others.

I think that's normal for any series author I have read. Some books I really enjoy, and some I don't. I don't think that has anything to do with the authors writing, I think it's totally dependant on what I am interested in reading at that time.

S.

I too prefer Eddings' novels in his Belgariad universe. The others have gotten progressively harder to enjoy. I think it comes down to one factor - whether or not I like the characters. With every series, be it book or movie or TV, I find that I can put up with the most outrageous stories if the creator has given me characters I *care* about.

Sherrie

[jtb1951]

With every series, be it book or movie or TV, I find that I can put up with the most outrageous stories if the creator has given me characters I *care* about.

And if we get great stories along with the characters we care about (ala the Russell and Martinelli stories) who can ask for anything more!:) Thanks, Laurie!!

John.

[sherrie221]

And if we get great stories along with the characters we care about (ala the Russell and Martinelli stories) who can ask for anything more!:) Thanks, Laurie!!

John.

I'll echo your thanks to Laurie. Great stories about great characters, told by a master storyteller such as our Ms. King, are rare and wonderful finds!

[Younger Son]

I'm ordering the Picador edition of The Beekeeper's Apprentice, and doing so has brought a few things to mind. This seems to be the right thread, though it hasn't been touched in a few months.

I read The Beekeeper's Apprentice not long after it came out, and I enjoyed it very much. A few years later, my elder daughter came to live with me, feeling not very competent at life, and I recommended the book to her. She, too, enjoyed it. I see, now she has moved away, that I no longer have my copy.

My daughter is now unquestionably competent, and feels it, through and through. There were many factors (I like to think I was among them), but I think The Beekeeper's Apprentice was among the first, small steps. I think she looked at Mary Russell and said to herself, "I could be that."

I am grateful for The Beekeeper's Apprentice. I want it in my library again. Thank you, LRK.

[kriddle]

One of the characters that I've been morbidly facinated with is Mary's Aunt who so tormented her during her years as a minor. She and Judith seem such polar opposites one hardly would guess they were sisters. In a way, I guess we see this in Letter of Mary with Miss Ruskin and her sister. Similar circumstances? Also, it is interesting to ponder who Russell would be without such an Aunt to help hone her independent spirit. Holmes only got a foot in the door by default (not that he wouldn't be persistant since he apparently was attracted to her from the very beginning).