Quick survey: What are you reading today?

[Pat Floyd]

Lenore, thank you for this absolutely wonderful link. I expect to go to it often.

[Jennifer]

Hi you all,
I have been reading the Flavia DeLuce series by Alan Bradley and wanted to tell you there's the cutest thing in the 3rd book "Red Herring with Mustard!" I guess, rather than ruin it for you, I'll just tell you that Alan Bradley gives a very sweet nod to our own Ms. King! If you don't plan to read the stories but want to know what I am talking about, PM me and I'll spill the beans! Otherwise, I say read them and enjoy the whole experience!
Jennifer

[annie]

I have just finished Coming Back by Marcia Muller. I make no secret of my great admiration for both Sharon McCone and her creator; and I have posted here before that although her books are available in the UK, they are not publicised or made as easily available as other authors.
My lovely kids bought me a Kindle for my birthday, but now I find that Ms. Muller's books are not available on Kindle!
It is not easy being a fan!

I have also been listening to the re-mastered 1954 recordings of the Paul Temple mysteries. In the lovely clipped tone of the times I've been enjoying "pour me another drink darling" "there's still one thing I don't understand Inspector" and marvelling at how the amateur detective bosses Scotland Yard about "just bring that record here Superintendant and I'll explain everything".

[Jennifer]

Yes,
The old mysteries had a lot of class. When I read DL Sayers, her Wimsey is perfectly charming, and a perfect gentleman to all, be they princes or pub inhabitants. I think that the sense that it was his duty and pleasure to be generous and kind to as many people as possible was a wonderful idea to perpetuate. I never failed to marvel at how he'd reach out to anyone in his path (not that he couldn't spot a bounder in a heartbeat...). If you read "The Nine Tailors," there's a great deal of interaction between him and the villagers. He was beneficent to so many of them. I guess if the nobility had been even one tenth as good as him, they might still be a force!
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Started The Crisis of the Seventeenth Century: Religion, the Reformation & Social Change by Hugh Trevor-Roper; a collection of essays by the author. I'm particularly looking forward to reading a 90+ page essay on the European witch-craze.

[Jennifer]

Started The Crisis of the Seventeenth Century: Religion, the Reformation & Social Change by Hugh Trevor-Roper; a collection of essays by the author. I'm particularly looking forward to reading a 90+ page essay on the European witch-craze.
Along the way sometime, in college perhaps, I must have read something by this author. The name is ringing bells...Would love to hear his ideas on the witch craze...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Along the way sometime, in college perhaps, I must have read something by this author. The name is ringing bells...Would love to hear his ideas on the witch craze...
JenniferYeah, I think Hugh Trevor-Roper has been around since the Neolithic. I've read articles by him previously but this is the first book (although as noted this book is a collection of articles).

Just started the section on the witch craze. Fascinating so far.

[Pat Floyd]

I have just finished Coming Back by Marcia Muller. I make no secret of my great admiration for both Sharon McCone and her creator; and I have posted here before that although her books are available in the UK, they are not publicised or made as easily available as other authors.
My lovely kids bought me a Kindle for my birthday, but now I find that Ms. Muller's books are not available on Kindle!
It is not easy being a fan!

Isn't Coming Back a splendid book! Marcia Muller's next, City of Whispers is also excellent. If you have trouble getting it in the UK, Annie, let me know and I'll be glad to send it. I can't believe Muller's recent books, at least, aren't on Kindle.

[annie]

Thanks Pat. What usually happens (has taken some years for me to suss this out!) is that the new one is available for a short time, so I can get it on Amazon uk, and some libraries get it in during that time. However, it quickly becomes unavailable, which is why the libraries have patchy stock. They tend not to be available 2nd hand either ( people hold on to them!).
Ms. M was published in the early 80s by The Women's Press (who first published Val Mcdermid) but they have gone off the boil.

I can't understand how this happens when Sara Paretsky is feted in literary circles and Sue Grafton can be found in every supermarket!

I have managed by dint of kind friends, occasional expensive purchases + good luck to have a good many of the Sharon McCones, and I now buy as soon as they are available in paperback. However I am sadly wary of recommending to friends as they can't easliy find them and although I am a merry lender of most books, I've learned to hang on to these!

As for Hugh Trevor-Roper: he has a controversial history, and seemed always to be in the news when I was younger. Most notably he authenticated the hoax Hitler diaries. He was very sarcastic & unpleasant to people he disagreed with ( who were many, he seemed to enjoy a good feud). He believed the English Civil War was mostly a religious conflict. He also upset people by saying that there was no history in societies that didn't have formal documentation (I'm simplifying a bit, but you get the gist) - I haven't a clue about his views on witches and hope Steve will tell us.

[Jennifer]

As for Hugh Trevor-Roper: he has a controversial history, and seemed always to be in the news when I was younger. ...He also upset people by saying that there was no history in societies that didn't have formal documentation (I'm simplifying a bit, but you get the gist) ...
While that would be akin to saying that people with no formal documentation didn't exist, I can tell you that from my recent dabbling in high school world history textbooks, the teaching of the history of peoples with no written language is no picnic. Oceania remains a very vague subject area for me.
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

As for Hugh Trevor-Roper: he has a controversial history, and seemed always to be in the news when I was younger. Most notably he authenticated the hoax Hitler diaries. He was very sarcastic & unpleasant to people he disagreed with ( who were many, he seemed to enjoy a good feud). He believed the English Civil War was mostly a religious conflict. He also upset people by saying that there was no history in societies that didn't have formal documentation (I'm simplifying a bit, but you get the gist) - I haven't a clue about his views on witches and hope Steve will tell us.Interestingly, Trevor-Roper places the blame for the witch-hunts on social factors and unassimilated minorities rather than religion (which I had always assumed were the default cause). He points out the witch-craze both began and lingered longest in isolated mountain regions such as the Pyrenees and Jura Mts.

It's obvious he screwed the pooch big-time by authenticating The Hitler Diaries (what an incredible discovery the real thing would have been!) but everyone makes mistakes. For what it's worth the book I'm reading was originally published 15 years before his famous faux pas.

[Jennifer]

It's obvious he screwed the pooch big-time by authenticating The Hitler Diaries (what an incredible discovery the real thing would have been!) but everyone makes mistakes. For what it's worth the book I'm reading was originally published 15 years before his famous faux pas.

Well he wasn't the only one snookered. At UNC where I was in grad school at the time, a very big-deal prof also gave the Hitler Diaries the thumbs up and had to retreat in embarrassment, great academic embarrassment later...
Jennifer

[annie]

Of course, authenticating a hoax like that is always going to leave anyone with custard pie on their face; but my impression was that there was no store of goodwill towards him because he was SO sarcastic and unpleasant to so many perfectly good people.
He was created a life peer by Mrs. Thatcher, also not easily forgiveable......

[Jennifer]

Of course, authenticating a hoax like that is always going to leave anyone with custard pie on their face; but my impression was that there was no store of goodwill towards him because he was SO sarcastic and unpleasant to so many perfectly good people.
He was created a life peer by Mrs. Thatcher, also not easily forgiveable......
Oh yes, that part goes without saying. It's pretty great when a guy like that gets his comeuppance. Our prof was a decent guy as well as well-respected. I guess he came out relatively unscathed because of that. But ooh, it must have been embarrassing...
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

I'm over half way through the "Conan Doyle Estate Commissioned and approved" Holmes pastiche "The House of Silk" by Anthony Horowitz (of Foyle's War fame). I was eager to read this as I loved Foyle's War and Horowitz was the creator and wrote ever episode, but, alas, I am very, very disappointed. I've read a fair number of Holmes Pastiche (authorized or not) at this point and this is falling far short of the better ones and a bit above the worst. It is flat, it isn't very imaginative IMHO and frankly, I'm bored with it. I will finish, just because, but all my hopes have been dashed on the rocks of mediocre writing. I think he was trying way tooooooo hard to "get" Watson's voice and style, and I found a huge time-line mistake in the first few chapters. So big it should have been caught by any competent editor (as I do a fair bit of editing over on LOM (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Letters_Of_Mary) I feel I can make this statement). So on a scale of one to five this gets a one and 1/2. I'd hoped for so much more.:(

[Lenore]

Oh, too bad! I am on the library's reserve list, but if it's really not good I'll not waste the time. I, too, loved Foyle's War, so I am sharing your disappointment in every way.

[Strawberry Curls]

"A Study In Sherlock" is a much better read, Lenore. Although I can't say I was blown away by each and ever offering in the anthology, most were good to very good and a few were exceptional. :)

[Lenore]

I'm on the library reserve list for Study in Sherlock, too, so things are looking up.:)

[KarenB]

I, too, would highly recommend A Study in Sherlock. I did wish there was a Holmes/Russell story in there as well, but I suppose one can't have everything!

[Jennifer]

Has there ever been anyone so adopted by so many and made the subject of so many "versions?" I guess I mean is this sort of thing relatively new in literature? My head swims at the number of pastiches and I don't relish the thought of giving them a try. I guess you have to look at it as an exercise, sort of measuring each one up to the original...
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

I don't know how new it is, Jennifer. I'm sure there were (and I know there are) many groups of people who are enamored of Jane Austen, but the fact highly visible people started forming groups to discuss Holmes Canon may have made him one of the stronger candidates in this...what, hero worship of sorts. Holmes fandom goes back to the beginning, I should think. There is an urban legend of sorts that man wore black armbands and woman wore black on the streets of London to mourn the death of Holmes when "The Final Problem" appeared in the Strand Magazine in 1893. It is also said that people stormed the Strand and they lost thousands of subscribers over the death of Sherlock Holmes.

The BSI has become quite prestigious, and there are hundreds, maybe thousands of Scion groups. My local is called "The Blustery Gales of the South Bay." People are drawn to the character.

It isn't unusual for people to form communities over almost anything these days with the internet drawing the world together, but back in the early part of the 20th century, it was harder for people to find those who shared their passion. Holmes was a character who still stirs people to write, discuss and ponder over his cases and his personality. He is the prefect enigma, complex and fascinating.

I don't think I have answered your question, Jennifer, but the fact remains Holmes endures and people will continue to discuss him and Canon, much as those of us who love Mary Russell discuss her memoirs, and write our own stories of the life of Mary Russell and Sherlock Holmes.

[Jennifer]

No Alice,
My question had to do not with how popular Sherlock Holmes continues to be, for that is undeniable and required not one iota of defense from you or anyone else, but more clearly, has this concept of "pastiche" grown up around him or are there earlier, much earlier forms of the idea? I think I am speaking of the remaking of legends and myths, perhaps a cultural icon being taken on by different groups or writers. I can think of Arthurian legends off the top of my head but was a little shy to mention it before. I believe there are a few versions of that myth. Nothing of course to the booming industry that is Sherlock pastiche but then again, those folks didn't even have a printing press, much less the internet....It was just a thought. Ephemeral and fleeting...
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

No Alice,
My question had to do not with how popular Sherlock Holmes continues to be, for that is undeniable and required not one iota of defense from you or anyone else, but more clearly, has this concept of "pastiche" grown up around him or are there earlier, much earlier forms of the idea? I think I am speaking of the remaking of legends and myths, perhaps a cultural icon being taken on by different groups or writers. I can think of Arthurian legends off the top of my head but was a little shy to mention it before. I believe there are a few versions of that myth. Nothing of course to the booming industry that is Sherlock pastiche but then again, those folks didn't even have a printing press, much less the internet....It was just a thought. Ephemeral and fleeting...
Jennifer

I would say the legend of Arthur is a perfect one! Arthur is as enigmatic as Holmes in his way and there have been thousands of adaptations of him. Various interpretations of Arthur date back to the early twelfth century, such as The Mabinogion, a Welsh text that contains some of the earliest references to Arthur, with a renaissance of ideas in the Victorian era continuing through the twentieth and into the 21st!! A perfect example of how easily people latch onto and, as Alice said, hero worship a character. It's definitely nothing new...

[annie]

Thanks Amy, for the warning - I'm usually a fan of Anthony Horowitz. I agree that Watson's "voice" is one of the most difficult to capture.
Of course the are many legends with huge variations - every generation seems to have its Arthur, its Robin Hood; and other heroes seem to crop up as needed (my beloved Hereward is a bit out-of-favour at the moment!)
It is interesting to see legends being made: the Musketeers in the early 19C, Sherlock later; and recently Star Trek & Star Wars.
I agree that Sherlock is one of the most pastiched in book form; but on the internet there is any amount of Trekkie & Empire fan-fic.

I wonder if Harry Potter will end up with "legendary" status once the copyright runs out? I think that "voice" will be harder to capture than the nay-sayers believe.

[Jennifer]

I wonder if Harry Potter will end up with "legendary" status once the copyright runs out? I think that "voice" will be harder to capture than the nay-sayers believe.
IF fan-fic is any indication, poor Harry is already a huge industry of pastiche! I don't read fan-fic but I have been well-versed by a fellow HPFGU on the many areas of interest that Harry Potter has spawned. With the internet, is there any such thing as "intellectual property" anymore?
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

IF fan-fic is any indication, poor Harry is already a huge industry of pastiche! I don't read fan-fic but I have been well-versed by a fellow HPFGU on the many areas of interest that Harry Potter has spawned. With the internet, is there any such thing as "intellectual property" anymore?I have been told there is even fan-fic Harry Potter porn. Eww. :eek:

[Jennifer]

I have been told there is even fan-fic Harry Potter porn. Eww. :eek:
Oh that is by far the most popular part of the whole fan-fic business for poor Harry. I got a whole lecture on "slasher" fic from my friend. And Steve, females are the predominating writers, a fact which I have a difficult time getting my impossibly old-fashioned and out-of-date head around.
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Oh that is by far the most popular part of the whole fan-fic business for poor Harry. I got a whole lecture on "slasher" fic from my friend. And Steve, females are the predominating writers, a fact which I have a difficult time getting my impossibly old-fashioned and out-of-date head around.I wonder what percentage of fan-fic writers are female compared to the percentage who write porn? IOW, do women write more porn fan-fic simply because more women write fan-fic (if indeed they do)?

I've noticed on Letters of Mary that the vast majority of authors are female (just as most of the members here). Is that because of the nature of the strong female antagonist and/or the romance between that heroine and Sherlock Holmes?

[Jennifer]

I wonder what percentage of fan-fic writers are female compared to the percentage who write porn? IOW, do women write more porn fan-fic simply because more women write fan-fic (if indeed they do)?


I just heard a story on the radio about the differences in how women and men approach sex. Of course we know men are visually-oriented. Women just seem to need something different and I think the words, the story must be it. I can't help but wonder if that has any correlation in terms of film-making. I know there are plenty of female directors but you can't help but wonder....
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

I'm starting Archbishop Laud by Hugh Trevor-Roper; a biography of the Archbishop of Canterbury executed by Parliament in 1645 for allegedly trying to take England's religion back under "popish tyranny."

[Elizabeth Chase]

I'm currently reading David McCullough's The Greater Journey: Americans in Paris. When I first heard of the book I assumed it was about the post WW I generation, but it's actually the Americans in the 19th Century from about 1820 to 1900.

[annie]

I am reading the latest Ann Purser, Threats at Three. When I began this series, I was living elsewhere and loved hearing the rhythms of my native county - AP has a very good ear for dialogue. Now I am "back home" and hear Lois, Gran & Josie everywhere I turn!
I don't mind AP not being on Kindle as I can get the books at my local library.

[Jennifer]

I was at breakfast with friends from my workplace and we got to talking about books. You all would be proud and happy to know that they all wanted to read every book I mentioned and they were all books we'd read together here at the VBC. They thought Yashim sounded fascinating, Flavia intriguing and Mary Russell positively scintillating! They took notes and when someone lost her notes later, they all had to put their heads together to share! So it seems we might just have a monthly "what are we reading" book club! Too fun!
Jennifer

[annie]

Excellent Jennifer! One of my friends has such a book club and loves it.

BBC Radio 4 are doing The house of Silk (see Amy's warning!)_ as Book at Bedtime, whilst Radio 4x are doing The Return of SH in crime & thriller hour. I'm listening to a lot of radio at the moment, so thought I would "compare & contrast"; however, HoS is a reading by Derek Jacobi, and Return is a full drama, so not easliy comparable.

[Lenore]

HoS is a reading by Derek Jacobi . . .

But Derek Jacobi could recite the alphabet and it would still be worth a listen!

[Jennifer]

I became a huge Derek Jacobi fan in the 10th grade! We'd come to school every Monday and talk about "I, Claudius!" He was the man!
Jennifer

[annie]

But funnily enough, I don't think he has quite got Watson's voice - it sounds a bit too cosy, and not quite Victorian (again, odd, when you think of what he has done)
I have only once before felt that he was mis-cast - I saw him as Macbeth and he wasn't quite believable (cf: Sean Bean, who was chilling)

[Jennifer]

But funnily enough, I don't think he has quite got Watson's voice - it sounds a bit too cosy, and not quite Victorian (again, odd, when you think of what he has done)
I have only once before felt that he was mis-cast - I saw him as Macbeth and he wasn't quite believable (cf: Sean Bean, who was chilling)

I can completely understand your impressions. During my Sherlock ACD glut, I was picking up books on cd by so many different readers. Ben Kingsley was one of them and by definition I should have loved his reading but there were others who seemed to inhabit the stories a bit better. His reading was somehow diffident, a bit detached. Now I know that seems impossible, to seem too detached in an ACD story but that was my feeling!
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

But funnily enough, I don't think he has quite got Watson's voice - it sounds a bit too cosy, and not quite Victorian (again, odd, when you think of what he has done)
I have only once before felt that he was mis-cast - I saw him as Macbeth and he wasn't quite believable (cf: Sean Bean, who was chilling)

I loved him as Macbeth! I thought he was really orignal with it...I also loved him as Cyrano de Bergerac (if that's how you spell it?!) I thought he was achingly romantic in that, even though it was a very old BBC production I watched late on Friday night I think! I was still mesmerised. I loved him as the master in Doctor Who, I was a bit sad when he regenerated and became John Simm, I thought he and David Tennant really worked well together. But the role I think he was born for was Cadfael, absolutely adored that series when I was younger - and stil now, it's the first thing I reach for when I need some 'comfort TV' :o

[Pat Floyd]

I absolutely agree about Cadfael. It's absolutely amazing to have read a great many books then to see the very man you have imagined before your eyes in living color.

[annie]

I loved him as Macbeth! I thought he was really orignal with it...I also loved him as Cyrano de Bergerac (if that's how you spell it?!) I thought he was achingly romantic in that, even though it was a very old BBC production I watched late on Friday night I think! I was still mesmerised. I loved him as the master in Doctor Who, I was a bit sad when he regenerated and became John Simm, I thought he and David Tennant really worked well together. But the role I think he was born for was Cadfael, absolutely adored that series when I was younger - and stil now, it's the first thing I reach for when I need some 'comfort TV' :o

Ahh Amy, we all have our own Macbeths. It was the RSC production I saw, and I just couldn't see him as a soldier (again, odd). But I don't want to sound picky about an outstanding actor.

The great actor that I never quite "got" was Sir Larry. By the time I was going to London theatres he was at the end of his career and I never saw him live; his films seem very poor to me, and I think "you had to be there" to thrill to his Henry V.

[Jennifer]

I think Sir Larry was of a time and a place. He had the romantic imagination of a generation. I was also immune to his charms but I'll bet it's something like the flutter women get from the actors we are drawn to. I know my daughter shakes her head at my favorites! I never got James Dean either. Of course he didn't make many films (3 I think!) But he had angst out the wazoo. His dark brooding quality covered for a multitude of deficiencies. Defining what attracts us is like catching lightening in a bottle...
Jennifer

[annie]

although obviously such attractions are partly to do with generations, they're not totally. Both James Dean & Humphrey Bogart were dead by the time I saw my first film (Bambi) but I totally "get" both of them. Of course, the novels that their famous films were based on were absolute greats:
Steinbeck, Hemingway, Hammet, Edna Ferber etc.

I do think that some actors do better on film, some on TV and some in theatre, and the great theatre actors will have a much smaller fan base. I am a huge fan of Mark Rylance and Simon Russell Beale, but neither has done a great deal of film or TV.

I did meet the stage hand who claimed to have set up Sir Larry's great Coriolanus leap ( but have also met publicans who served Dylan Thomas and landladies who looked after Bob Marley and take all with a large pinch of salt) and he reckoned that he was far too overblown for film, because he learned his craft on the stage. Good point as far as it goes, but his contemporary sir John Geilgud was great in all media.
Have strayed off topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jennifer]

I think that's a good assessment for Sir Larry. Too big for film. Film is such a finicky medium. I honestly love '30's movies and the actors that made the leap successfully from silent to talkies were just the right size. I can see how a big hammy stage actor would overwhelm things...And while I get Humphrey Bogart, I will never get the allure of James Dean! He just doesn't speak to me...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Starting Hobbes: A Biography by A.P. Martinich; a bio of 17th century political philosopher Thomas Hobbes.

[annie]

Wasn't he the chap who proposed a "social contract" between Government and the citizen? But then went into obscurity because of "atheism"?
Steve - you make my brain work harder than it wishes.

I am reading Dyed in the Wool - a Ngaio Marsh set in WW2 New Zealand and full of local colour (and which just suits my brain!)

[Jennifer]

Wasn't Hobbes the man who wrote "A Modest Proposal?" I remember being horrified reading that in high school. Also, this site led me to the 4 queens of British mystery and Ngaio Marsh. I love listening to her mysteries. They somehow remind me, the earlier ones, of Albert Campion. It's all very clockwork and brittle and somehow comforting at the same time. Later Marsh mysteries were so very good as well and she was completely at home in a very late 20th century milieu with her Roderick Allyn marrying a beautiful talented sculptress and meeting post-colonial black men who ruled their countries. I think she bridged the many great changes of 20th century Britain with such elan...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

Wasn't Hobbes the man who wrote "A Modest Proposal?"

No, that was Jonathan Swift, also the author of Gulliver's Travels. I think you are conflating Swift with Hobbes because, in Leviathan, Hobbes describes the existence of man in a state of nature (in the absence of the social contract) as "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Sounds like the sort of environment in which Swift's "modest proposal" (the poor eating their children) could take hold.

[Jennifer]

No, that was Jonathan Swift, also the author of Gulliver's Travels. I think you are conflating Swift with Hobbes because, in Leviathan, Hobbes describes the existence of man in a state of nature (in the absence of the social contract) as "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Sounds like the sort of environment in which Swift's "modest proposal" (the poor eating their children) could take hold.
Sorry! Those tract writers and social contract folks get me all confused and of course it was 30 years ago! But they sure do seem to have a lot in common. And I wonder why their stuff hasn't been examined more in light of events of today, at least the social contract idea. Seems that would have legs....
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Excellent Jennifer! One of my friends has such a book club and loves it.

BBC Radio 4 are doing The house of Silk (see Amy's warning!)_ as Book at Bedtime, whilst Radio 4x are doing The Return of SH in crime & thriller hour. I'm listening to a lot of radio at the moment, so thought I would "compare & contrast"; however, HoS is a reading by Derek Jacobi, and Return is a full drama, so not easliy comparable.

I think it was Alice's warning :o I'm reading it at the moment and quite like it :rolleyes:

[annie]

Sorry Amy! Well, you do have the same first letter........

I have listened to it - I am not a huge fan of audio books, but the Radio 4 format of 15 mins. a day suits me.
Yes, I thought it quite good - fairly obvious from the beginning where we were heading, but with a lot of Conan Doyle, the process is the interesting part and there was a very typical part that I really enjoyed (won't say any more for fear of spoilers!)

Mostly I am very "cosy" at the moment and am reading one of Veronica Heley's Ellie Quicke mysteries, set in Ealing (which very few mysteries are.....)

[AmyLizzie]

For anyone who is interested, this is a nice review by Mark Gatiss (co-creator and writer of BBC 'Sherlock') of The House of Silk.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e57d8a54-0931-11e1-8e86-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1eW0Qwp77

Doesn't contain spoilers! Just teasers...:)
But a fair and honest review.

[Pat Floyd]

Thank you, AmyLizzie. I enjoyed the review and the very interesting website.

[annie]

I am now reading Hazel Holt's "My Dear Charlotte". Ms. Holt is a cut above the usual "cozy" writers and I always enjoy her Sheila Mallory detective novels. I do however, think she suffers from the same affliction as her friend Barbara Pym: she can't write a truly awful character, everyone always has a redeeming feature.
I am no fan of pastiches and artificial sequels in general - with one notable exception - and this looks to be another. Using the style of Jane Austen's letters to Cassandra, the author tells a mystery in correspondence. Loads of Austen references, from Gowland's lotion for freckles, to someone whose sore throats are "always worse than anybody's" and the whole style is pure Austen "legacies prove to be a wholesome diet" of someone who has inherited a good amount of money.
I'm about halfway through, and wonder if in using this style, Ms. Holt will be able to bear a full-blooded denouement (which she always avoids in her usual books) - but so far it is pure enjoyment from the secret engagement to the elegant widower, via much spotted muslin & trimmed bonnets.

[Jennifer]

For anyone who is interested, this is a nice review by Mark Gatiss (co-creator and writer of BBC 'Sherlock') of The House of Silk.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e57d8a54-0931-11e1-8e86-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1eW0Qwp77

Doesn't contain spoilers! Just teasers...:)
But a fair and honest review.
Amy,
I enjoyed the review too and listened to a bit of the book on line and huzzah! I am first in line to get the audio version at the library. Having a thumb's up from Mark Gatiss is a wonderful endorsement. I just found out a couple of days ago that we will not get the new Sherlocks in the states until May! This is agony on the scale of waiting for a new HP! (I was one of those people....)
Jennifer

[Jennifer]

I am now reading Hazel Holt's "My Dear Charlotte". ...

I am no fan of pastiches and artificial sequels in general - with one notable exception - and this looks to be another. Using the style of Jane Austen's letters to Cassandra, the author tells a mystery in correspondence. Loads of Austen references, from Gowland's lotion for freckles, to someone whose sore throats are "always worse than anybody's" and the whole style is pure Austen "legacies prove to be a wholesome diet" of someone who has inherited a good amount of money.
I'm about halfway through, and wonder if in using this style, Ms. Holt will be able to bear a full-blooded denouement (which she always avoids in her usual books) - but so far it is pure enjoyment from the secret engagement to the elegant widower, via much spotted muslin & trimmed bonnets.

Annie,
I haven't dabbled in many pastiches of any type but the one Jane Austen I read was unsatisfying and I wish I could remember which one it was, (Jane Austen pastiches now being only second to Sherlock and a full-on cottage industry)...I will see about this one given your "review..." Thanks.
Jennifer

[Elizabeth Chase]

Speaking of Jane Austen pastiches, P. D. James has written a sequel to Pride and Prejudice -- A Death Comes to Pemberly. I wonder why?

[Pat Floyd]

P. D. James wrote, "I have to apologize to Jane Austen for involving her beloved Elizabeth in a murder investigation. It has been a joy to revisit Pride and Prejudice and to discover, as one always does, new delight and fresh insights. This fusion of my two enthusiasms--the novels of Jane Austen and for writing detective novels has given me great pleasure."

At ninety one, James probably has a "sieze the day" attitude about selecting what she wants to write.

[Jennifer]

Jane Austen and murder investigations...Well if anyone can bring it off, it would be P.D. James. She's one of the few murder mystery writers I had ever read before I came to know Mary Russell. I liked her style very much but somehow I wasn't in the right place for her back then. Mixing two genres is an idea though. Heck, they've gone and made Sherlock a true action hero in those movies. People seem to like that...
Jennifer

[Pat Floyd]

Jennifer, if you haven't read P. D. James lately, I think you would enjoy some of her more recent books. My favorites of all her books are Original Sin (1994), Death in Holy Orders (2001), The Murder Room (2003, The Private Patient (2008). Original Sin is a masterful portrayal of the far-reaching consequences of disregard for human life and also includes one of the funniest three pages I've ever read--the joys for a city child of being in London during WWII bombing in contrast to the horrors of the country.

[Jennifer]

Pat,
I can't remember the PD James that made me too depressed, it was something about a black tower but that one was very '70's and was rife with unhappy marriages, unhappy people. I wonder what was going on in her life at the time. It was very easy to put that book down and decide to find something easier on the psyche to read. So it's good to hear that she may not have remained in that depressing place throughout her writing career.
I'll look 'em up!
Jennifer

[Pat Floyd]

Jennifer, I hated The Black Tower. I think it's the worst book James ever wrote. By Death in Holy Orders Dalgliesh is beginning to have an interesting personal life.

[Jennifer]

So good to know I am not just the wimpiest reader on earth! I had read another of hers, something about a job not fit for a woman??? It was good but then "The Black Tower" just seemed so cynical and sour! Okay, off to see who's recorded her...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

I'm about 40 pages into John Stuart Mill: Victorian Firebrand by Richard Reeves. Interesting thus far.

[annie]

Steve - whenever you post what you are reading, I rack my brains to remember what I know! Fortunately not difficult with John Stuart Mill. I was brought up in a socialist home, in an area with a long history of radicalism; so he was a familiar name before I was formally taught about his contribution to our history.

And yes, I have wondered about the new PD James - I too went off her at one point, and haven't yet wandered back. But it will be interesting to compare & contrast with Hazel Holt.
PDJ is much better known, and is seen as an "intelligent" writer; whilst HH is seen as a "cosy" writer. Interestingly, their formal education reverses this: HH is a Cambridge graduate who worked at the International African Institute and came late to mystery writing (in her 60s); PDJ worked in hospital administration but began writing in her 20s.

[SCWillson]

Steve - whenever you post what you are reading, I rack my brains to remember what I know! Fortunately not difficult with John Stuart Mill. I was brought up in a socialist home, in an area with a long history of radicalism; so he was a familiar name before I was formally taught about his contribution to our history.My family was not so political. Mill is one of those interesting historical figures because he is claimed by both liberals and conservatives. I first read about him in Paul Johnson's brilliant The Birth of the Modern.

While I'm only 75 pages into the book I suspect I'm going to agree with him on a lot of issues. I'm politically and fiscally conservative as a rule but I'm also agnostic; which makes me different from both mainstream conservatives and liberals.

[Pat Floyd]

I've been reading a mixture of things recently: Tasha Alexander's Victorian mysteries interspersed with rereading some favorite Robert B. Parker Spenser novels and rereading Deborah Crombie. I've just finished P. D. James' Jane Austen book, Death Comes to Pemberly. On the whole I like it. James includes many delicious Austen-like observations on the foibles of society and human nature. For the benefit of those not familiar with Pride and Prejudice, I'm sure, the characters recall in their thoughts events of the past at greater length than I would prefer for the pace of the story. I shall be interested in reading Hazel Holt's My Dear Charlotte.

[Jennifer]

I am reading (for my son...) "Red Storm Rising" which is like having a testosterone injection each time I turn on the cd player!! The man gives "terse" a whole new meaning! I never read books with my son because he wasn't much of a reader but he has found that there are books with almost all action and none of that messy emotional stuff (his words, not mine!). SO, after having read all the Harry Potter books with my daughter, (a very good set of childhood memories that I hope mean something to her at some point...equivocating is my speciality!) I figured I better jump on his bandwagon and see if I could "enjoy" books more to his tastes. Clancy is so hardcore. I really can't believe I am doing this! The whole book is an exercise in taking a military scenario and writing a story around it! I think it works but it really lacks heart. My poor son realized that writing about character for this book would be quite a stretch...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

I am reading (for my son...) "Red Storm Rising" which is like having a testosterone injection each time I turn on the cd player!! The man gives "terse" a whole new meaning! I never read books with my son because he wasn't much of a reader but he has found that there are books with almost all action and none of that messy emotional stuff (his words, not mine!). SO, after having read all the Harry Potter books with my daughter, (a very good set of childhood memories that I hope mean something to her at some point...equivocating is my speciality!) I figured I better jump on his bandwagon and see if I could "enjoy" books more to his tastes. Clancy is so hardcore. I really can't believe I am doing this! The whole book is an exercise in taking a military scenario and writing a story around it! I think it works but it really lacks heart. My poor son realized that writing about character for this book would be quite a stretch...
JenniferRed Storm Rising was (according to Tom Clancy) literally written as an attempt to do a wargame scenario as a book. The wargame in question being titled Harpoon and being about modern 1980's naval warfare, the book naturally centers upon the naval action. The ground stuff is pretty much just for flavor.

I've read the book several times and enjoy it as a bit of escapism, although the political aspects seem quaintly dated nowadays.

[Lenore]

The Hunt for Red October, Clancy's first book, actually has more characterization, and yet is written in that same "bullet point" style that might make it attractive to reluctant boy readers.

[Jennifer]

Lenore,
I totally agree, that Hunt had tons more "character." That was our first Clancy book. DS wanted to do all the books with subs in them and I am not sure, but he was told "Red Storm" would have subs! But he's consuming it, reads all the time now, so no worries, what ever it holds...
Jennifer

[Jennifer]

Well ds finished his portion of Tom Clancy and I believe is now sated. Has seen the bugaboo that many authors exhibit, mainly, the writing of the same story over and over. I am sure there are many very creative Clancy books but he happened to pick two very similar ones and is probably ready to move on. I know I am. Contemplating a WWIII scenario for 24 discs is pretty heavy stuff to do when life is already fairly stressful!
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Well, I finished the biography of John Stuart Mill this morning and I can honestly say this was one of the best biographies I've read in the past couple years, and I read a lot of biographies. Unlike a lot of intellectuals and philosophers I've read about Mill was a very decent and genuinely compassionate man who loved only one woman in his entire life.

I know he is often called either a liberal by those on the left or a conservative by those on the right and both views are equally wrong and correct to some degree because neither label as used nowadays is accurate when applied to Mill. I'd say he's closer to being a libertarian. Equal rights for women but coercion by the state is wrong; compassion for the working man but a genuine fear of the debilitating effects of dependence on government largess, etc.

I probably agree with 80% of his ideas. Anyway, now I have a new favorite philosopher and plan to read some of his books.

Next up: Adam Smith: An Enlightened Life by Nicholas Phillipson.

Time for my walk. (Did I mention I've lost at least 21 pounds since the end of August?)

[Lenore]

(Did I mention I've lost at least 21 pounds since the end of August?)

BRAVO! SO-O-O impressed!

[Jennifer]

Steve,
Don't know which is more noteworthy, a political philosopher who could please the majority of the people or having lost 21 lbs since August! I am so happy for you! Keep it up!
Jennifer

[MaryL]

Currently reading China Mieville's Embassytown. I'm always astounded by the man's imagination, and ability to tell a coherent tale with a completely foreign point of reference.

[annie]

Well, I finished the biography of John Stuart Mill this morning and I can honestly say this was one of the best biographies I've read in the past couple years, and I read a lot of biographies. Unlike a lot of intellectuals and philosophers I've read about Mill was a very decent and genuinely compassionate man who loved only one woman in his entire life.

I know he is often called either a liberal by those on the left or a conservative by those on the right and both views are equally wrong and correct to some degree because neither label as used nowadays is accurate when applied to Mill. I'd say he's closer to being a libertarian. Equal rights for women but coercion by the state is wrong; compassion for the working man but a genuine fear of the debilitating effects of dependence on government largess, etc.

I probably agree with 80% of his ideas. Anyway, now I have a new favorite philosopher and plan to read some of his books.

Next up: Adam Smith: An Enlightened Life by Nicholas Phillipson.

Time for my walk. (Did I mention I've lost at least 21 pounds since the end of August?)

Well done Steve!

We still struggle with the things that worried JSM today.

I am also amused by your comment about "labels" - you are quite right; but in Europe we are often bemused by what Americans call a "liberal" or even a "socialist".

Adam Smith & his pins are depicted on our £20 notes.

[SCWillson]

Well done Steve!

We still struggle with the things that worried JSM today.One of the things I most respected about Mill is that he understood there was no ideal and permanent solution to society's problem; a fact that ideologues both left and right often seem unable to grasp. There will always be disagreement about the role and size of government, and liberty is what comes out of that constant tension.

This is my biggest problem with utopian schemes: The illusion that if we have what appears to be a formula for a "perfect society" and if we just set it up everything will be perfect forever and ever. It didn't work for the Levelers and Diggers in the 17th century and it won't work with the communists of the 21st.

[SCWillson]

Steve,
Don't know which is more noteworthy, a political philosopher who could please the majority of the people or having lost 21 lbs since August! I am so happy for you! Keep it up!It must be my ongoing mid-life crisis, but I took my first tai chi class last night and really enjoyed it. Only four students in the beginners class including myself (two men, two women). Once I get up to speed tai chi class will be two evenings per week.

My 51-year-old little sister just bought a Harley; I learn to move in slow motion. What's wrong with this picture? :p

[Jennifer]

My 51-year-old little sister just bought a Harley; I learn to move in slow motion. What's wrong with this picture? :p
A world turned up-side down?
Jennifer

[annie]

Well, to reference the last 2 replies: I told you I was brought up in a area with a strong history of radicalism. One of our nearby pubs is actually called The World Upside Down.
Steve; you remind me of one of my neighbours when I lived in Suffolk. He had lived there most of his life but had spent a few years in Norfolk (look at the map to see how far that is). He was glad to be back, he said "folk do rush about up there".

[SCWillson]

Well, to reference the last 2 replies: I told you I was brought up in a area with a strong history of radicalism. One of our nearby pubs is actually called The World Upside Down.Hey, it's not like I was never exposed to radicalism. My mom was a genuine bra-burning feminist in the 60's and 70's and almost her entire circle of friends were either left-wing and/or gay.

She never could understand how all four of her kids are political conservatives. :)


Steve; you remind me of one of my neighbours when I lived in Suffolk. He had lived there most of his life but had spent a few years in Norfolk (look at the map to see how far that is). He was glad to be back, he said "folk do rush about up there".While I don't need to look at a map of the UK to understand your point, I'm always amused at how people in England think even Cornwall to York qualifes as far apart by Texas standards. At the Texas-New Mexico border on Interstate 10 is a highway sign that reads:

El Paso 18 miles

Beaumont 852 miles*


Both cities are still in Texas.




* (that's 1371 km for you metric types) :D

[Jennifer]

Steve,
Distance in the Mid-West is also a relative thing. It's nothing to drive 8 hours to see friends. Heck, places in the Mid-west are more than 12 hours apart from each other....When I had the unexamined pleasure of living on the East Coast, you could get to a wealth of wonderful places in 5 hours or less. And I hardly ever went anywhere....
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Steve,

In Canada we look at that and simply go... that's nothing. Each Prov/Territory starting at Quebec and headed west is bigger than Texas.Oh, I know. But Texans are obligated by law to brag about Texas. ;)

[annie]

What sort of helped me to realise US distances is the bit in Giant where Lesley's sister is visiting from England. Luz says "how can you live in a country where every time you turn round you fall in to the sea?"
I say sort-of because I still really don't get it.

[SCWillson]

What sort of helped me to realise US distances is the bit in Giant where Lesley's sister is visiting from England. Luz says "how can you live in a country where every time you turn round you fall in to the sea?"
I say sort-of because I still really don't get it.I think this is something that Europeans often don't grasp at a visceral level.

Thirty-odd years ago I was friends with some German Luftwaffe soldiers and their wives stationed at Ft. Bliss who one weekday informed me that they wanted to see the Grand Canyon, so they told me they were going to drive out Saturday morning and be back in El Paso in time for dinner. They were dumfounded when I pointed out it was a 10 hour drive each way. At that time you could drive entirely across Germany in just over 5 hours. :)

[Jennifer]

And my Indian friends would say "Let's go to the Grand Canyon" and would manage to go and come back in record time, from Ohio...They'd drive in shifts and just GO! They surely must have missed the idea of sitting happily in a train, being fed great street food at any stop, and never having to worry about falling asleep at the wheel. After I met my husband, he took me to the most improbable places in the US! I never would have seen Niagara Falls, the bluegrass of Kentucky, not even the marshy brackish sea air of Charleston, only 5 hours from my home! So I decided to hitch my wagon to someone who liked to see the world and we did see some of it and hopefully a bit more before it's all over!
Jennifer

[annie]

At that time you could drive entirely across Germany in just over 5 hours. :)

20-odd years ago, I did exactly that. I was actually going from E. Switzerland to the Hook of Holland ferry, all with 4 kids in the back.
When I remember it, I realise how much easier it is now that our credit cards are accepted world-wide and even for cash, most European countries use the Euro. Back then, before departure, I had to make sure that I had enough Swiss francs, Austrian schillings, German deutchmarks & Dutch guilders to buy petrol & drinks on the way + some for emergencies.

Back on-topic: still so busy that comfort reads are a necessity. Current one: Simon Brett's Shooting in the Shop, one of his Fethering mysteries. As always, I am struck by his acute observations.

[Jennifer]

I am still wading through "Red Storm Rising!" I couldn't do it if Clancy weren't doing characters in between tank battles, submarine pings and tom cat strafes. He is a very good character person but I guess he knows his audience and keeps it all a fast-paced mix. One thing for sure, after listening to this, you realize just how impossible another world war must be. The devastation is unimaginable.
Jennifer

[Lenore]

I'm listening to Erik Larsen's In the Garden of Beasts, about the American ambassador to Germany and his family in 1933, when Hitler had just become chancellor. Good timing, as I recently finished William Manchester's biography of Churchill that covers the same period. Well written and fascinating, but depressing. As Manchester noted, the world just refused to see, refused to believe what they were seeing. And I see the pattern repeated in some of what is happening today.

[Pat Floyd]

Back on-topic: still so busy that comfort reads are a necessity. Current one: Simon Brett's Shooting in the Shop, one of his Fethering mysteries. As always, I am struck by his acute observations.

I'm glad to be reminded of the Fethering mysteries. The Shooting in the Shop is one of my favorites. I've discovered that I haven't read Brett's latest, The Bones Under the Beach Hut, and that a new one is to be published in February.

[Pat Floyd]

I'm listening to Erik Larsen's In the Garden of Beasts, about the American ambassador to Germany and his family in 1933, when Hitler had just become chancellor. Good timing, as I recently finished William Manchester's biography of Churchill that covers the same period. Well written and fascinating, but depressing. As Manchester noted, the world just refused to see, refused to believe what they were seeing. And I see the pattern repeated in some of what is happening today.

I think forgetting history or being ignorant of it is dangerous. I don't know whether or not my 10-year-old nieces know anything about WWII. Among the books I'm giving them for Christmas is Lois Lowry's, Number the Stars, set in Denmark, one of the few places with positive stories to tell.

[SCWillson]

I'm listening to Erik Larsen's In the Garden of Beasts, about the American ambassador to Germany and his family in 1933, when Hitler had just become chancellor. Good timing, as I recently finished William Manchester's biography of Churchill that covers the same period. Well written and fascinating, but depressing. As Manchester noted, the world just refused to see, refused to believe what they were seeing. And I see the pattern repeated in some of what is happening today.A good book I read recently myself, and I had much the same reaction. Why was it so hard to persuade people that Hitler was dangerous?

[Jennifer]

As for Hitler, all I can come up with is that when confronted with such monstrous evil, the world kept saying "it can't be so...." Kept finding ways to avoid facing the situation because when you name evil, you are then bound to do something about it. The world refused to believe in concentration camps. Germans were right in the midst of it and kept up a pretense. The frog in the pot of warm water is about all that makes any sense and yet if that were an adequate defense, it is incredibly sad.
Jennifer

[112233]

[U]The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society[U] by Mary Ann Shaffer and Annie Barrows has both positive and negative aspects of WWII. Too strong for 10 year olds but suitable for mid teens on up (by my antique standards).
We should not forget the horror of a modern industrial society condoning such evil. "The line between good and evil runs through every human heart".

[SCWillson]

I've started The Day We Found the Universe by Marcia Bartusiak, which covers the discovery by Edwin Hubble and other astronomers that our universe is expanding and what we though were gas clouds within the Milky Way were in fact other galaxies. This may seem obvious to us in the 21st century, but in 1925 this was a major revision of how humanity viewed the cosmos - akin to realizing the Sun doesn't orbit the Earth.

[SCWillson]

I've started Levellers and the English Revolution by Henry N. Brailsford.

Yes, I'm still reading the book from the previous post. I often have several books underway at the same time. The Day We Found the Universe is an easy read and I needed something light for the evenings. I usually read fiction at home, but do occasionally grab non-fiction. My "serious" reading is done at breakfast and sometimes at lunch as well if I don't go with friends.

[Elizabeth Chase]

What a coincidence! I'm also reading The Garden of the Beast and finding it quite shocking at how little was understood about Hitler and his gang. The only thing our government seemed to be worried about was Germany paying off their WW I debt. (And making sure no Jews were allowed to immigrate.)

[Jennifer]

The reading of this book, "Red Storm Rising" seems more like an arduous journey rather than my normal light-hearted reading! I am plodding through! And it's not that it's not a good book, just that it's a very long book! And reading about war is much harder than I realized. But one thing this book has taught me, and I hope it was part of Clancy's overall goals in writing the book, is how absolutely unthinkable a large-scale war was between Nato and the USSR. How fruitless, how futile such an undertaking would have been! Just hearing about the destruction of Germany where most of the land war was prosecuted was so painful, so unimaginable. I am coming in to the finish, nearly there, and wouldn't you know it? The Politburo is trying to get up support for using nuclear weapons. I have to finish this! I've given it a huge chunk of my December! I've learned a great deal about sub warfare, warfare in general and I can not wait to have the world at relative peace again!
Jennifer

[annie]

I am reading The Winter Ghosts by Kate Mosse - for our book club, but I would have read it anyway, as I am a fan. Is she well known in the US?
This is set as usual in the Languedoc, beloved of both her & me. It is a study of post WW1 grief and at the moment I am totally immersed, both in the sadness & in the historical landscape.

[Jennifer]

It seems to me, as interested as we all are in WWI and its aftermath, that grief and sadness after it all has become a current subject of intense interest. I do believe it says a good deal more about us and our situation than the post-WWI times. I know that certain areas of recent historical endeavor have been about giving voice to the voiceless but I worry that there is a real danger of almost creating what we want to find. I see that in of all places, British dramas that are imported over here and devoured by the intellectual set. I was just watching an episode of "Downton Abbey" and I wished I had a nickel for every lower class chappie who shook his finger at a titled person vowing they'd come to see the day when all their wealth and position were gone. This, of course was so prescient of the lower class chappie! I am beginning to wonder if the writing of history and the portrayal of history is just really about us and what we think now.
Jennifer
.

[Jennifer]

Is the USA doing much on the War of 1812 this coming year?? It's a HUGE deal here especially along the battle front. They have redone the sites. Reinactments are planned etc over the next 2yrs. My youngest son has a map of the sites and the presentations at them - he's a map-a-holic.
I have to say I have not heard one word about this upcoming event. I believe to my sadness, that the upcoming election has the media wrapped up for the time being. This constant cycle of election is a paralyzing phenomenon. I would much rather we had a 6 week period of campaigning and then just voted. There's only so much vetting that is useful. We were down to the minutiae months ago.
Jennifer

[Lenore]

Is the USA doing much on the War of 1812 this coming year?? It's a HUGE deal here especially along the battle front.

There's a website on the subject: http://www.visit1812.com/events/ (http://www.visit1812.com/events/)

[annie]

It seems to me, as interested as we all are in WWI and its aftermath, that grief and sadness after it all has become a current subject of intense interest. I do believe it says a good deal more about us and our situation than the post-WWI times. I know that certain areas of recent historical endeavor have been about giving voice to the voiceless but I worry that there is a real danger of almost creating what we want to find. I see that in of all places, British dramas that are imported over here and devoured by the intellectual set. I was just watching an episode of "Downton Abbey" and I wished I had a nickel for every lower class chappie who shook his finger at a titled person vowing they'd come to see the day when all their wealth and position were gone. This, of course was so prescient of the lower class chappie! I am beginning to wonder if the writing of history and the portrayal of history is just really about us and what we think now.
Jennifer
.

I'm sure you're right; look at different versions of classic films, and Shakespeare, that echo the pre-occupation of the times.
Although I would say, given the political situation pre-WW1, people were gearing up for change. I have talked to a lot of people who were young (and even middle-aged) adults then and they knew the old order was on its way out.
I think we are often interested in an era that is just passing from living memory; but I also think that here, in the UK, we are seeing a return to a big social divide and are looking back at the era when that began to break down.

[SCWillson]

I am beginning to wonder if the writing of history and the portrayal of history is just really about us and what we think now.That's a great insight, Jen. I've often wondered the same thing. At the very least we filter everything through the lens of the history that has taken place since the events in question.

As an example, slavery now seems impossible to justify or even tolerate but it seemed a lot less outrageous in an era of indentured servants, forced apprenticeships, press gangs, and where employers could legally beat employees or even family members. Average citizens had little or no recourse against the abuses of their social superiors; a gentleman could strike a worker with no repercussion at all.

[SCWillson]

Started John Stuart Mill's On Liberty this morning. Much to my surprise it's a pretty easy read; most political philosophy books are dull dull dull. :)

[Jennifer]

As an example, slavery now seems impossible to justify or even tolerate but it seemed a lot less outrageous in an era of indentured servants, forced apprenticeships, press gangs, and where employers could legally beat employees or even family members. Average citizens had little or no recourse against the abuses of their social superiors; a gentleman could strike a worker with no repercussion at all.
Steve,
I haven't studied slavery extensively but it's a feature of civilization that has been around more often than not and in fact, I am sure you have heard about modern forms of slavery. They exist, but are much more hidden from the public eye. And there are flip sides to everything. The need for protection as societies such as the western Roman empire crumbled gave rise the relationships of master and vassal, master and serf. It's very easy to dismiss these relationships as completely unfair but at one point, they served a purpose that was needful and remained viable for centuries. That's why when we look back at the times where a lord and manor were the norm and sniff, I would love to go back and see the times, see how it all worked, rather than look at it from my own current lights...
Jennifer
I forgot to say I finished "Red Storm Rising" (very low-key ending!) and started "House of Silk." I believe that Derek Jacobi reading it makes it so much more believable!

[Elizabeth Chase]

There's a website on the subject: http://www.visit1812.com/events/ (http://www.visit1812.com/events/)

Doesn't look like there's much going on and the event in Indiana--the battle of Tippecanoe--has nothing to do with the British. It was Wm. Henry Harrison defeating Tecumseh's brother in order to get rid of the Indians so that Indiana could become a state.

[farmwifetwo]

Doesn't look like there's much going on and the event in Indiana--the battle of Tippecanoe--has nothing to do with the British. It was Wm. Henry Harrison defeating Tecumseh's brother in order to get rid of the Indians so that Indiana could become a state.

I was also interested to note there was no mention of the burning of the White House.

The War of 1812 is significant in that Canada returned the US home behind their borders and formally put in place the foundation to create a country in 1867. The current Cdn gov't is very big on teaching Cdn's about their history and to take pride in it. There are many events planned and a push to put in proper history programs into the education system. Many "lefties" aren't impressed and claim the gov't wants to simply "go to war".

Personally, it's about time. Most Cdn's have no idea even the basics of how our gov't works or why. Frightening.

[annie]

For those who might have an interest in reading The Winter Ghosts, it is paralleling different historical periods (as Kate Mosse's work tends to) and refers to the the killing of many in the region during the Albigensian Crusade.

Regarding slavery: I have had contact with people (mostly women) who are effectively in slavery in these times - and who will not escape because of repercussions by the gang-masters on their families. It seems that all societies and periods throw up examples of the best and worst of human nature.

[Jennifer]

Regarding slavery: I have had contact with people (mostly women) who are effectively in slavery in these times - and who will not escape because of repercussions by the gang-masters on their families. It seems that all societies and periods throw up examples of the best and worst of human nature.

I don't want to risk sounding as if civilized people must tolerate some things but slavery does seem to be a pernicious evil that no matter how hard you try to eradicate it, it comes back. Prostitution, many would say, is the most common form of modern slavery. Wouldn't you agree, Annie?
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

I don't want to risk sounding as if civilized people must tolerate some things but slavery does seem to be a pernicious evil that no matter how hard you try to eradicate it, it comes back. Prostitution, many would say, is the most common form of modern slavery. Wouldn't you agree, Annie?
Jennifer

Is it?? They are fighting in the courts here to legalize it and then use the law to prevent the problems on the streets.

Personally, I'd worry more about families http://news.nationalpost.com/tag/mohammad-shafia/ and the slavery used against family members under the guise of religion and culture.

[Jennifer]

Saying religion and culture engenders forms of slavery makes me ponder exactly what you mean. Seems most civilization is on a knife's edge between freedom and bondage. And it all works together in ways that are so hard to understand and anticipate. When I studied anthropology briefly in college, that seemed to finally be dawning on people. It was like a jinga tower. If you pulled out one piece at the bottom, the whole thing could come tumbling down. Culture and religion cut in ways that seems we can not fully predict and if we try to get into the heads of people, we risk going native and losing our own objectivity and good sense.
Jennifer

[annie]

They are all pernicious, and I don't think we should play the "which is worst?" game.
But Sheri's point (which touches on one of the Kate Martinelli books) is that slavery within a "family" can be difficult to see.
I have often felt helpless as young women told me that were they to escape, their families back home would be tortured or killed. I could only say that there were options open for them should they feel able to take them.
I coped by saying to myself "I can only do today, what I can do today" (have a feeling this is an American quote, but don't know from where)

Prostitution does engender high feelings (obviously) and seems to run from a woman (or man) saying "I control my body & do what I like with it" to abject slavery.
I can only speak from the point of view of the women (and two men) that I have worked with, during my years in family nursing. Not one was the glamourous "Belle de Jour" or anywhere near it.
Some were indeed slaves, many were addicts. Some came to prostitution because of addiction; some, who thought it an easy way to earn money, ended up taking drugs as the only way to cope. Not one seemed in command of their lives at all.

[SCWillson]

I've started Written in Stone: Evolution, the Fossil Record, and Our Place in Nature by Brian Switek.

Switek writes two of my favorite evolution blogs,

Dinosaur Tracking (http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/)

and

Laelaps (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/laelaps)

[Jennifer]

Almost finished with "The House of Silk" and I think it's a very credible pastiche. I know that Derek Jacobi's reading has added immeasurably to the pleasure of the story. He is a wonderful reader and brings Sherlock to life. I think the story is a very good standard mystery. There are many touches of foreshadowing and backstory fill-in that give it an extra poignancy. The storyline seems to cast itself wider than Canon but it isn't unbelievable. This is really only my 2nd venture into non-ADC Sherlock stories and it was a good choice.
Jennifer

Just finished! I am not sure what to think, or what to say to you all about it. I certainly would love it if anyone else who's read it or who will read it wanted to talk about it. Not sure how the author would begin another adventure. I think the denouement was a tad predictable, I think the crux of the entire story lacked something. It's hard not to compare the pastiches with the original and I think it's fair to do that. While the author did a very good job of maintaining the characters, I just couldn't put them in this situation completely...

[Elizabeth Chase]

In the Garden of the Beast has finally inspired me to read William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. I've no idea how long that book's been gathering dust on my bookshelf. Well, on that particular bookshelf, almost 19 years, 13 on the one before that . . . good gawd! Then there's also The Nightmare Years: 1930-1940, the 2d volume of his memoirs waiting to be read.

I'm also reading George R. R. Martin's latest, A Dance with Dragons.

[Jennifer]

Now finishing a set of lectures by Thomas Madden on the decline and fall of the Roman Empire in the west. I still marvel at the fact that the Eastern Empire was going strong long after the West had to make other plans...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

In the Garden of the Beast has finally inspired me to read William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. I've no idea how long that book's been gathering dust on my bookshelf. Well, on that particular bookshelf, almost 19 years, 13 on the one before that . . . good gawd!Yeah, I read Shirer back in high school. It's a difficult read but still probably the best single volume on the topic.

[Lenore]

I'm reading Donna Tartt's The Secret History. I'm appalled (and admiring) at the way in which she has led me to empathize with some very arrogant and fundamentally unjustifiable murderers. Thank goodness this is fiction!

[jtb1951]

I'm reading Donna Tartt's The Secret History. I'm appalled (and admiring) at the way in which she has led me to empathize with some very arrogant and fundamentally unjustifiable murderers. Thank goodness this is fiction!

I felt the same way when I read the book:)

John.

[Elizabeth Chase]

Yeah, I read Shirer back in high school. It's a difficult read but still probably the best single volume on the topic.

I haven't had the book quite as long as I thought -- pub date of 1985.

[SCWillson]

I've started The Earth on Show: Fossils and the Poetics of Popular Science, 1802-1856 by Ralph O’Connor. This books discusses the methods and showmanship used to popularize geology and its sister science paleontology to the public in the first half of the 19th century.

I've always been interested not only in science but in the history of science.

[Jennifer]

I started "Musicophilia" by Oliver Sacks a couple of days ago but I am finding it's not what I'd hoped. I was hoping for a discussion of how music affects the brain but I guess I didn't realize Sacks' long suit is a fascination with the myriad dysfunctions of the brain. He's very articulate, a great writer but I am not sure I am up to hearing many more chapters on the ways in which people are unable to hear and understand music. I am honestly afraid the the part of me which is highly suggestible, might wake up with some of these mostly unexplainable and sad conditions.


Steve, when you say the book you are reading is about the popularization of geology, does that mean as in a carnival side show type of feeling? I read "Rising From the Plains" by John McPhee about the US Geological Survey and David Love but there was no discussion of the history of the science of geology.

Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Steve, when you say the book you are reading is about the popularization of geology, does that mean as in a carnival side show type of feeling? I read "Rising From the Plains" by John McPhee about the US Geological Survey and David Love but there was no discussion of the history of the science of geology.To some extent "carnival side show" is a pretty good description, but in many cases it's a bit more high brow. Geology was the "in" hobby in the early 19th century; it was popular in social strata (pun intended) from the lower middle class to the aristocracy. Lectures about science were very popular 200 years ago; much as cable science channels are in the modern era.

[Jennifer]

To some extent "carnival side show" is a pretty good description, but in many cases it's a bit more high brow. Geology was the "in" hobby in the early 19th century; it was popular in social strata (pun intended) from the lower middle class to the aristocracy. Lectures about science were very popular 200 years ago; much as cable science channels are in the modern era.

I know from my archaeology class in college how much that subject had captured the popular imagination so I was wondering if the same applied to geology. Seems a bit of a hard sell but as you said, people were curious about the natural world and lectures were popular. I would have loved to sit in on the lectures about T.E. Lawrence, although I am not sure "lecture" is the right word. That journalist was almost a performance artist when it came to relating the exploits of his subject. Still, must have been thrilling. Same with (and here's my cheesy side, I admit it) Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show! Would have loved to see that! Okay, I'd have also loved to sit in on the more serious stuff too. I am a omnivore when it comes to the hobby of acquiring knowledge...
Jennifer

[Pat Floyd]

I've just finished reading Is God a Mathematician? by Mario Livio and found it fascinating. This book is not about God (the writer is an atheist) but about the way math is integral to so much of the universe, especially in physics and astronomy, provoking the question: Is math discovered or invented or both? The early chapters pair such people as Pathagoras and Plato, Archimedes and Galileo, Decartes and Newton--then names too numerous to mention and branches and applications of math that I knew little or nothing about.

In an entirely different vein, I enjoyed very much Deanna Raybourn's Victorian mystery, Silent in the Grave, and plan to read the other books in the series.

[SCWillson]

I know from my archaeology class in college how much that subject had captured the popular imagination so I was wondering if the same applied to geology. Seems a bit of a hard sell but as you said, people were curious about the natural world and lectures were popular.Keep in mind that paleontology is really a sub-discipline of geology; and the two have been inextricably intertwined forever.

I enjoy reading about the history, showmanship, and rivalries involved because one should never forget that scientists are human beings first. "

Coincidentally a pretty interesting article about this kind of rivalry is in today's Laelaps: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/01/richard-owen-vs-textbook-cardboard/#more-91856

[Jennifer]

Keep in mind that paleontology is really a sub-discipline of geology; and the two have been inextricably intertwined forever.
Steve,
What threw me in "Rising from the Plains" was the twin threads of paleontology and the underlying job of geology to locate oil. I know that in the early on, oil couldn't have been the goal...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Steve,
What threw me in "Rising from the Plains" was the twin threads of paleontology and the underlying job of geology to locate oil. I know that in the early on, oil couldn't have been the goal...Well, no, but professional geologists were already used to locate valuable mineral deposits and finding oil is pretty much the same idea...

Geology just for scientific knowledge was pretty much the forte of "gentleman scientists" like Charles Darwin and Charles Lyell until the mid-19th century.

[Jennifer]

Well, no, but professional geologists were already used to locate valuable mineral deposits and finding oil is pretty much the same idea...

Geology just for scientific knowledge was pretty much the forte of "gentleman scientists" like Charles Darwin and Charles Lyell until the mid-19th century.

So finding the goods was always the aim but the fossils were just a happy by-product? Did you know that 25 % of all the world's fossils have been found in Wyoming and Montana?
Jennifer

[annie]

Geology just for scientific knowledge was pretty much the forte of "gentleman scientists" like Charles Darwin and Charles Lyell until the mid-19th century.

I know you were just giving examples, but have to add Mary Anning (http://www.sdsc.edu/ScienceWomen/anning.html), in whom the disadvantage of being a woman was secondary to the disadvantage of having no education. And in a very true sense she could be describes as "professional" as her fossil hunting supported her family.

[Pat Floyd]

Thank you, Annie, for this very interesting bit of history.

[annie]

Pat, have you read My Dear Charlotte yet? The popular pastime of fossil hunting in Lyme Regis is part of the romantic plot.
I have just read Death Comes to Pemberley. I am not, on the whole, a fan of these sequels, but wanted to give it as try.
I thought it was quite good - the plot was good in concept, but then relied on a death-bed confession (very Victorian I thought, rather than Regency!) and the characters didn't shine through or develop.
It can't really be compared to My Dear Charlotte, which is more an "Austen style" & doesn't use characters we already know & love.
But if I was to compare, I would say Hazel Holt is the better writer & PD James the better plotter - and as a complete aside, I was astonished to find that PDJ is a great-grandmother. The knowledge & understanding of children in her books is nil!

[Strawberry Curls]

I read "Death Comes to Pemberley" and was greatly disappointed. PD James is on the shady side of 90, and God love her for still writing, but this seemed IMHO like a mediocre pastiche written by someone who had the attitude "I'm a world famous mystery writer and I'll write this if I want. Anyone who doesn't like it can go to the devil." I do hope this isn't her last work. After her award winning and quite scholarly "Talking about Detective Fiction" it would be a shame to have "Pemberley" be the last work by her. Again, just my opinion.

[Elizabeth Chase]

I've tried sequels and on the whole I don't think they're successful, especially those based on unpublished manuscripts and notes. There's probably a good reason why the original author didn't finish these books . . .:rolleyes:

[Pat Floyd]

I read "Death Comes to Pemberley" and was greatly disappointed. PD James is on the shady side of 90, and God love her for still writing, but this seemed IMHO like a mediocre pastiche written by someone who had the attitude "I'm a world famous mystery writer and I'll write this if I want. Anyone who doesn't like it can go to the devil." I do hope this isn't her last work. After her award winning and quite scholarly "Talking about Detective Fiction" it would be a shame to have "Pemberley" be the last work by her. Again, just my opinion.

I enjoyed Death Comes to Pemberley, but I agree that it is less than excellent. From what I've read by and about P. D. James, and as one getting close to her age, I would guess that her attitude was "I'm 90 years old and I'll write what I please. I don't especially care what anyone thinks about it."

Annie, I haven't read My Dear Charlotte. I've just put it on my "read soon" list. I tend to like the Regency Period better than the Victorian, but Anna Dean's Regency novels I read recently didn't really engage me while Deanna Raybourn's Victorian one did.

[Jennifer]

As someone who usually doesn't care much for pastiches, and that being said, my experience of them is also small, I will say that Jill Paton Walsh is getting better in her "Lord Peter" attempts. The last one, "The Attenbury Emeralds," was the closest I think she's gotten to a Lord Peter mystery. A great deal is still missing but the flavor is much closer. Again, that said, there's probably no practicing for Ms. James. I can't see her sitting down and saying "let's do this again and see if we can't come closer to the mark..."
Jennifer

And my third book of the new year is (I think "Musicophilia" needs a rest....) "Hallowe'en Party" by Agatha Christie. Picked it up in the library as an afterthought! It's a Hercule Poirot and with my usual amazing luck, it's late in the series! He's already mentioned getting older! His colleagues are retired! Well that's just fine. The mystery is already crackling with all the Christie charm. She's an oldie but a goodie....
Jennifer

[annie]

Pat - I don't know Anna Dean or Deanna Raybourne, but think that they are modern novelists?
I think there is a great gulf between modern writers setting novels in the past and even attempting to write as if they were of that period and "the real thing".

That's why it is so much easier to set historical novels before the 17C - as we have so little evidence of the voice of the times, and don't come across the few examples a great deal. Once Shakespeare & KJB kick in, we have a better idea, and once we are in the Regency period, we can compare with Jane, Walter, Tom & the rest of the gang.

[Jennifer]

Annie,
I think there is a huge gulf between the real thing and books "set" in a period. I honestly can't imagine doing a credible historical novel. I know they are popular and I can see in Ms. King some very smart planning for what she has done with Mary Russell. I remember her saying at some point that Mary talks like a Victorian. And you just mentioned how much easier it would be to find credible first person sources for later forms and examples of speech. Ms. King has many records of what a Victorian woman would sound like and that lends a huge amount of credibility to Mary. Research looks like a black hole in terms of the time it takes but it all adds up.
Jennifer

[Lenore]

That's why it is so much easier to set historical novels before the 17C - as we have so little evidence of the voice of the times, and don't come across the few examples a great deal.

With all respect, I'm not sure I agree. Because we already know how differently we speak now than in, say, Regency or Shakespearean times, I think any representation of how people spoke in earlier times tends to come across as somehow too modern, regardless of how it is done. For example, although I adore the novels of Bernard Cornwell and admire his very deep research, I find I have to consciously ignore (if that's not a contradiction in terms) the fact that his Saxons and Danes just sound too contemporary.

[Jennifer]

I think I put up a muddled post...I totally agree with Lenore that novels set back before we have a credible record of how people spoke always sound too contemporary for me. I used to eat them up as a teen ager and even later but in the last few years, I cringe when I read historical novels because they almost always sound too familiar and it's why I love reading fiction written in its day...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

I know you were just giving examples, but have to add Mary Anning (http://www.sdsc.edu/ScienceWomen/anning.html), in whom the disadvantage of being a woman was secondary to the disadvantage of having no education. And in a very true sense she could be describes as "professional" as her fossil hunting supported her family.It may interest you to know there is a biography of Mary Anning available at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Fossil-Hunter-Dinosaurs-Evolution-Discoveries/dp/0230611567/ref=pd_sim_b_4

I haven't read it but looks interesting.

[Pat Floyd]

Pat - I don't know Anna Dean or Deanna Raybourne, but think that they are modern novelists?
I think there is a great gulf between modern writers setting novels in the past and even attempting to write as if they were of that period and "the real thing".

That's why it is so much easier to set historical novels before the 17C - as we have so little evidence of the voice of the times, and don't come across the few examples a great deal. Once Shakespeare & KJB kick in, we have a better idea, and once we are in the Regency period, we can compare with Jane, Walter, Tom & the rest of the gang.

Starting with third grade, I've enjoyed both historical fact and fiction. One of my college majors was history. Anna Dean and Deanna Raybourne are both contemporary novelists. Anna Dean, whom I enjoyed less, was possibly closer to the time period in language. However, I didn't get the sense that either of them was trying to write as if she were of the period. In contemplating the posts on this subject, I realize that I want accuracy in historical events and customs, but I really don't require it in language so long as the writer avoids anachronisms. It's true that readers of writers like Ellis Peters and Alys Clare don't have contemporary writing to compare, and if we did, we would find it almost impossible to understand--consider Chaucer.

I understand that Georgette Heyer had a roomful of research about the Regency period that included idioms of the time that add greatly to her books, but above all she told entertaining stories. I think modern writers need to strive both to communication with people today and to present their period as accurately and fairly as possible. However, it's perfectly understandable that some readers will prefer not to read historical fiction by modern authors.

[annie]

It may interest you to know there is a biography of Mary Anning available at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Fossil-Hunter-Dinosaurs-Evolution-Discoveries/dp/0230611567/ref=pd_sim_b_4

I haven't read it but looks interesting.

Thanks Steve!

Regarding historical "voices" it seems to me that some do a very good job of capturing the tone of what it might have been like, in language we can understand. The fen people in Arianna Franklin's books talked the way older East Anglian people did when I was a child, so it sounded sort-of about-right to me, although I knew it wasn't "authentic".
I think what jars to us is individual - depending partly on how much we know of the region or era, and partly how much the author is engaging our attention.
I am very fussy about early 20C "voices" and Mary Russell is spot on (by that I mean she sounds like my school teachers who were her age & Oxford graduates!)

[Jennifer]

I am very fussy about early 20C "voices" and Mary Russell is spot on (by that I mean she sounds like my school teachers who were her age & Oxford graduates!)
Ms. King talked about that in an interview on one of her books on cd, how she purposely cultivated that Victorian turn of phrase in Mary. Someone remarked that she sounded much older than her years, aka a Victorian and proper and Ms. King said that's what she was going for. I like Mary's voice, her usage of words and now I am just beginning to be able to hear the "American" in places. I know it's not screaming at you but now and then I can see how seamlessly Ms. King blended Mary's backgrounds...
Jennifer

[annie]

I have just been reading a detective novel set in Saudi Arabia, featuring a female forensic scientist who gets to do some police work as well. It is called City of Veils by an American author, Zoe Ferraris, who has lived in Saudi and is married to a Berber.
I found it fascinating. I do think it would have been better to have read the first in the series, called Finding Nouf first, as I had a bit of difficulty placing everyone.
I'm upside down at the moment and need to read on Kindle, and only the 2nd in the series is available.
Assuming she is correct, it gave a tremendous insight into Saudi society.
I have friends who are Muslim, and have worked with women who wear the veil, but of course, they live in Britain. I have not come across the restrictions that Saudi society places on women (which I know many Muslims regard as rather strange) but Saudi Arabia is a powerful force and puts a lot of money into promoting its own brand of Islam.

[Jennifer]

There's just been a show here about Muslims living in Michigan, Muslims who've been here all their lives, and how they live. When we lived in St. Louis, we were aware that there were great numbers of both Muslims and Jews in the city (one hint was the kosher and halal butcher we went to!) and then Muslim friends who'd moved from the Detroit area, told us how many Muslim families they'd left back there and that was almost 20 years ago. That group has just been flying under the radar for most of us here. One thing I do not understand is why would the French mind the wearing of the hijab? Is it because the hijab threatens your French identity?
Jennifer

[Lenore]

One thing I do not understand is why would the French mind the wearing of the hijab? Is it because the hijab threatens your French identity?


Actually, what French law prohibits in public is the niqab, the face veil, and I think they see it as bad for at least a couple of reasons: the notion that it is anti-female, the notion that one should not go masked in public. The French also do prohibit the wearing of the hijab in public schools -- they also prohibit kippot (skullcaps worn by Jewish males) and ostentatious crosses. This is indeed a notion that people should publicly conform to French secular culture. It's very different from the American concept that how you dress is very much your own business and that you should be proud of your background from wherever. The French do not recognize ethnic communities -- if you want to live in France (which I did for five years in the 80s) you are expected to conform to the predominant French culture. There is a lot of debate over whether this policy encourages assimilation or has the negative effect of encouraging immigrant communities to remain insular. I -- and most Americans, I suspect -- think the latter.

[annie]

I know France fairly well - have friends there & visit often. They are very proud of their secular, civic society - a legacy of the Revolution. For example, the only legal marriage in France is the secular one, which takes place at the town hall. Any religious ceremony is purely that.
For this reason they ban all religious symbols in state (public) schools. With regard to veiling: the advertising slogan translates roughly as: obscuring your face with a veil is obscuring your view of the world.
In Britain we tend towards the "live & let live" view.

[Jennifer]

I guess it's not that popular then to live in France if you are an orthodox Muslim woman. My kids' high school has several girls who wear the head cover and it garners no attention, no comment. I always think of France as such a fab place but maybe that will have to be qualified in future. Good if you can conform...
Jennifer

[annie]

It's not so much about conforming in terms of private life or beliefs in which freedom is strongly protected - it's about what is expected of public behaviour. Critics of the law point out that it may lead to women being more sequestered.
My great friend, who is a social worker in an area of France with a lot of Muslim families, and I have great debates about it!
What is fab about France - apart from the food, the weather, the countryside.....is their tremendous sense of civic pride.

[Jennifer]

It's not so much about conforming in terms of private life or beliefs in which freedom is strongly protected - it's about what is expected of public behaviour. Critics of the law point out that it may lead to women being more sequestered.
My great friend, who is a social worker in an area of France with a lot of Muslim families, and I have great debates about it!
What is fab about France - apart from the food, the weather, the countryside.....is their tremendous sense of civic pride.
I have nothing against civic pride but I am just not used to how the French think it's proper to express that pride. It's like not being able to see colors or something. I can't think of a head covering as limiting your ability to be a good citizen. Do you think it has anything to do with the French and their colonial experience? In that respect, the UK seems to have a much more realistic approach. Two different cultures I know. As you probably experience with your debates, a big tin of worms to get into...!
Jennifer

[Jennifer]

Actually, what French law prohibits in public is the niqab, the face veil, and I think they see it as bad for at least a couple of reasons: the notion that it is anti-female, the notion that one should not go masked in public. ... There is a lot of debate over whether this policy encourages assimilation or has the negative effect of encouraging immigrant communities to remain insular. I -- and most Americans, I suspect -- think the latter.
I think you hit the nail on the head. By forcing integration into the "civic" culture, the French seem to have made it much more attractive to remain insular. I am sure you know that France has at least one major city where the Muslim population (Marseilles) is the majority and others are catching up. I can't imagine how this is all going to work out. Brave new world...
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

I think you hit the nail on the head. By forcing integration into the "civic" culture, the French seem to have made it much more attractive to remain insular. I am sure you know that France has at least one major city where the Muslim population (Marseilles) is the majority and others are catching up. I can't imagine how this is all going to work out. Brave new world...
Jennifer

But you are viewing it from your own backyard. Same as when WWII issues continue to impact relations btwn the USA and Europe. WWII has just started to be taught as history there. To them it is part of today not yesterday.

France is secular not multicultural. Much of Europe is not multicultural and it is causing considerable issues. Best way to understand it is to read books written by authors in those countries. Many fiction writers include the culture issues, they are not "generic" like American authors.

There was an interesting editorial in the National Post on this issue.. http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/08/banning-niqabs-on-the-witness-stands-forces-alleged-abuse-victim-in-an-impossible-situation-lawyer/ http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/09/barbara-kay-feminists-back-women-as-possessions-in-supreme-court-case/
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111212/canada-face-veils-ruls-citizenship-new-canadians-111212/

[Jennifer]

I am guessing that "secular" and "multi-cultural" are polar opposites from your discussion. Are you saying that Europe recognizes no religion? Again I am lost. How does a society that has people from many religions just blank on those differences? Doesn't it come into everyday life? And why does recognizing people come from different world views (at least some of the time!) make one "generic?" I am afraid I don't have the background for this discussion. There are too many references I am not familiar with.
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

Multi-cultural is the "live and let live" mentality. Which, as shown in Toronto at times, can have it's own issues when allowed to hit the "everything is against human rights" problems that they have. We're too busy accommodating the "minorities" that we forget to accommodate ourselves. Truth is you can't accommodate everybody. Sooner or later a return to the middle ground will have to happen and the State not Religion will be the laws.

Secular means separation of culture/religion and state. The State is what the norm is in public. Religion and culture is practised at home/church.

France has also pushed the envelope in what hate speech is http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/22/us-france-turkey-genocide-idUSTRE7BL1FB20111222 It isn't what they view is correct, it is the idea that if you don't agree you can be thrown in jail that pushes the line. Canada has pushed it too far also IMO http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/10/11/whatcott-saskatchewan-human-rights.html and finally we're going to get a proper ruling on what the definition should be. At the moment it's every little thing, every little opinion that isn't "left". Where does "opinion" end and "hate" begin.

Mystery series'

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3265305-bruno-chief-of-police Martin Walker - France
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/47397.Arnaldur_Indri_ason Iceland
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/283238.Helene_Tursten - Sweden
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/747437.Yrsa_Sigur_ard_ttir - Iceland

There are many others but these are a good place to start. My parents have been reading the middle 2 - I have many of the books here.

[annie]

Have read all of these, and like them. Especially agree that Martin Walker gives quite an accurate view of "Middle France".

I am mostly of the "live & let live" attitude, but would just lob some food for thought into the debate:
My DH also worked in public service, in a face-to-face job. When I was saying this to him (following a debate with our French friends!) he pointed out that I rarely had a conversation with a veiled woman - she could nearly always lift her veil to me. He however, had to, and this was uncomfortable. He particularly resented the implication that he could not control the sexual urges he might feel on seeing a woman's face or hair! Now, he was not saying that necessarily his comfort was more important than hers - simply that it was an issue that I had breezily overlooked.
I was also amused by one family that came to my clinic - the young mum would sashay in wearing skin-tight jeans & T-shirt, her eyes heavily made-up, and her Calvin Klein veil ensuring her modesty!
I do not think that there are rights & wrongs - these are issues that go back to how we see ourselves and that have developed in cultures over thousands of years. I do think that it is right to have a debate about it.

[Jennifer]

I am lost in this debate, never mind the particulars. I honestly am trying to figure a way to be put off by a woman in a veil. I am not a man, true, but in our highly sex-saturated society, why would any Western man be even the littlest bit tempted by a woman in a veil? No, I guess I just see it as an apparatus of her culture and faith and yes, there are skin-tight jeans and a ton of makeup underneath those things lots of times. So it seems the veil is just a convention to a lot of veiled women. We have our own conventions but they are invisible to us. Believe me if you visit another culture much different from your own, your conventions will start jumping out at you! I don't have any argument with anyone in this discussion (or as they might say in the South "I don't have a dog in this fight...). I have lived on the cusp of several cultures most of my adult life so I suppose I am tone deaf to the subtleties of it all now...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

why would any Western man be even the littlest bit tempted by a woman in a veil?

I might be wrong here, but I don't think you precisely got Annie's point. It's not that Western men are tempted by a woman in a veil, it is that they are somewhat affronted at the notion that they would be unable to control their impulses if she were not veiled. But I think the thing that makes one -- male or female -- uncomfortable in conversations with veiled women is that we are totally deprived of facial cues in conversation. This is of no moment to the blind -- they never have facial cues. But for the sighted, in conversation we rely a great deal on the facial expressions of the one to whom we are talking. I know that this is why I (and others I know) detest phone conversations of substance with people we do not know -- or do not know very well. One cannot see their reactions and adjust our approach to be sure of making our point. (And it's certainly a problem I've encountered on this listserv -- accidentally affronting those who are unaccustomed to my style, because I cannot see their reactions as I type. Allow me to use this moment to apologize, again, in advance.:))

This is not to take the position that I would ban face veils. I live in the US, where, generally speaking, we feel it our right to dress and adorn ourselves as we please, regardless of how different that may be from mainstream. But I can see the need for certain exceptions. In situations in which identity is crucial, anyone -- male or female -- should be required to unmask. For example, absolutely veiled women who wish to drive automobiles (or have passports) should have to remove the veil for their photo IDs, and on demand for officials who, in the course of official business, need to know that one's identity matches one's documents. Testifying in court (to refer to the link to the article posted by farmwifetwo)? I don't know -- lawyer that I am, I can argue this both ways. But it is not totally intolerant to be against veiling in certain circumstances.

[Jennifer]

Lenore,
I think I was putting myself into the moment and speaking as if I were a Western man. I see that veil as the woman saying something about who she is, her manner of making her way in the world, not as something she personally wants to say to any man she meets. There are so many levels of meaning in anything we do and perhaps I would go to Europe and find myself completely at sea, not understanding how to be "a public person" in public and then practicing my religion and my beliefs in private. All this discussion is just so odd to me. I guess I'd need to be in Europe to understand the feel of it all. Maybe that's why Americans are considered so dumb when they go abroad. I just don't get it. But stick me in India and I know how to behave in public. Just wanted to put that in there...
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

This is not to take the position that I would ban face veils. I live in the US, where, generally speaking, we feel it our right to dress and adorn ourselves as we please, regardless of how different that may be from mainstream. But I can see the need for certain exceptions. In situations in which identity is crucial, anyone -- male or female -- should be required to unmask. For example, absolutely veiled women who wish to drive automobiles (or have passports) should have to remove the veil for their photo IDs, and on demand for officials who, in the course of official business, need to know that one's identity matches one's documents. Testifying in court (to refer to the link to the article posted by farmwifetwo)? I don't know -- lawyer that I am, I can argue this both ways. But it is not totally intolerant to be against veiling in certain circumstances.

The argument for the veil in the court is that neither the lawyers nor the jury can see that person's facial expressions/emotions.

The woman can request to be interviewed during the trial in another room and have it streamed to the courtroom. I was in a jury where this was done.

[farmwifetwo]

Lenore,
I think I was putting myself into the moment and speaking as if I were a Western man. I see that veil as the woman saying something about who she is, her manner of making her way in the world, not as something she personally wants to say to any man she meets. There are so many levels of meaning in anything we do and perhaps I would go to Europe and find myself completely at sea, not understanding how to be "a public person" in public and then practicing my religion and my beliefs in private. All this discussion is just so odd to me. I guess I'd need to be in Europe to understand the feel of it all. Maybe that's why Americans are considered so dumb when they go abroad. I just don't get it. But stick me in India and I know how to behave in public. Just wanted to put that in there...
Jennifer

Most people are not against the idea if the person is willing. But, many are not and that's where the issue lies.

Personally, don't care either way. BUT, like Lenore I do feel that official documents and proof of identity are necessary at times. That doesn't mean that people and officials aren't willing to accommodate the best they can... and they do.

I suspect it's also one of the reason for the xrays at the airports. There was an article or a comment about it somewhere and it made me wonder....

[Jennifer]

How do they handle the veil in Saudia Arabia when id is needed? I wonder. Must make life very cumbersome. I don't know many who have taken the complete head-to-toe deal. We just have hijab mostly. ID is still easy enough with that.
Jennifer
PS I believe the total veil is called a burqa...

[SCWillson]

Finished:

The Earth on Show: Fossils and the Poetics of Popular Science, 1802-1856
Ralph O’Connor (k)

Georges Cuvier, Fossil Bones, and Geological Catastrophes: New Translations & Interpretations of the Primary Texts
Martin Rudwick (k)

I just started Richard Owen: Biology without Darwin by Nicolaas Rupke. Owen was Darwin's contemporary and also one of his harshest critics; their relationship contained a lot of personal enmity in addition to violent disagreement on the mechanics of evolution. Owen was not a benighted Anglican fundamentalist as we tend nowadays to think anyone who opposed Darwin's theory must have been. He's a major historical figure in paleontology in his own right; he's the man who coined the very word "dinosaur" but nowadays he's seldom mentioned except as Darwin's greatest foil.

I'm a couple books posting behind now due to illness.

[Lenore]

How do they handle the veil in Saudia Arabia when id is needed? I wonder. Must make life very cumbersome. I don't know many who have taken the complete head-to-toe deal. We just have hijab mostly. ID is still easy enough with that.
Jennifer
PS I believe the total veil is called a burqa...

Women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to drive, and are not allowed to travel without a male relative, who presumably vouches that the woman's identity document matches the person beneath the veil.

The total body- and face-covering garment in Afghanistan (and maybe some other places) is called a burqa. But Saudi (and other Gulf-states) women wear a body-covering cloak called an abaya and a face veil called a niqab. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia.

[Jennifer]

Yes, I knew that only female doctors got to drive in Saudi, and sorry I got the names of the coverings mixed up. I have read about life in some middle/eastern areas and just adopted the words I remembered. I was just trying to be more specific when I talked about the identity issue here. I have seen women more covered than just their heads but the more covered ladies here usually have on something that looks like a long duster. I don't think I have ever seen a completely covered Muslim woman in person. Maybe if I came across someone completely covered, I would be spooked too. It's almost like having someone in a shroud in your midst. And I realized after I posted, but had to go off, that in Saudi Arabia a man would always be there to vouch for you if you were a Muslim woman. There is mystery in all of this. I had a friend who worked in the oil industry in SA and he said when they were taken to the suq in the late afternoons, after work, in their company bus, when they'd see the women fully covered, it would be a great moment of curiosity and interest.
Jennifer

[Lenore]

Yes, I knew that only female doctors got to drive in Saudi.

May female doctors drive? I don't think so.

[Jennifer]

I saw this story several years ago, that the Saudi Gov't had relented in that area but it may have been a boondoggle or been reversed since then. You sound as if you have your finger on the pulse of Saudi society!
Jennifer

[Lenore]

You sound as if you have your finger on the pulse of Saudi society!


No, just an obsessive-compulsive researcher/fact checker! And interested in both women's issues and Middle East affairs.

[annie]

Back to our mutton - I do recommend that you read these books. I'm sure it is largely accurate and I fiound the role of women in the police quite interesting.

[Lenore]

Back to our mutton

What a great expression! Do you know the origin of it? (I found a use in a poem in a 1905 edition of The Oxford Magazine, but it was in quotes, implying that it was already in use as an expression.) Sorry, I know this is digressing again -- getting away from our mutton -- but I'm hopelessly curious.

[Lenore]

I'm listening to Anthony Horowitz's The House of Silk. I was a big fan of Foyle's War, and I really wanted to like THOS -- although we were forewarned by Strawberry Curls that it wasn't fabulous. But there are two things about it that positively shock me. First, there are grammatical mistakes, things like "he told Holmes and I." Whatever one may think about this as modern usage, Watson would NEVER have written that! Second (and here I hope I am not creating too big a spoiler), Holmes is in serious legal difficulty and it occurs to neither Watson nor Mycroft nor Lestrade (who is sympathetic to Holmes here) to hire a lawyer for him, even though that is certainly something that middle and upperclass people did in those days when in legal trouble and that might have proved beneficial under the circumstances. Not what I expect in a Sherlock Holmes story.

[Millie]

First, there are grammatical mistakes, things like "he told Holmes and I." Whatever one may think about this as modern usage, Watson would NEVER have written that!

I'm hyperventilating! I have been eyeing THOS off in the bookshop lately, but that's really put me off.

[Jennifer]

I'm listening to Anthony Horowitz's The House of Silk. I was a big fan of Foyle's War, and I really wanted to like THOS -- although we were forewarned by Strawberry Curls that it wasn't fabulous. But there are two things about it that positively shock me. First, there are grammatical mistakes, things like "he told Holmes and I." Whatever one may think about this as modern usage, Watson would NEVER have written that! Second (and here I hope I am not creating too big a spoiler), Holmes is in serious legal difficulty and it occurs to neither Watson nor Mycroft nor Lestrade (who is sympathetic to Holmes here) to hire a lawyer for him, even though that is certainly something that middle and upperclass people did in those days when in legal trouble and that might have proved beneficial under the circumstances. Not what I expect in a Sherlock Holmes story.

Oh Lenore,
Grammatical mistakes. They drive me nuts. And I just let this one go because I have given up! Almost no one in the public square seems to understand objective case pronouns. The pronoun "I" seems to be the Tiffany touch to any sentence...My friend in college gave us all a dumb person's rule in case understanding grammar was just too tough. Take out the noun that's in there with "I" and see if the sentence makes sense. "He gave it to John and I." Take out the "John" and see if that sounds right. "He gave it to I" sounds screamingly wrong! Poor little "me," the low-rent pronoun no one wants to use anymore. And you are also right about Holmes not getting a lawyer. That made no sense! I thought the writing sounded good in the beginning and as we went along, the story frayed. I was expecting a very intricate plot and in the end it was incredibly predictable. And since it was all based on Watson's recollections after the death of Holmes, it had a valedictory quality about it. I have only read Ms. King's version of Holmes and this book but I think I won't be dabbling in others.
Jennifer

[jtb1951]

I have only read Ms. King's version of Holmes and this book but I think I won't be dabbling in others.

But then you would be missing out on Lyndsay Faye's most excellent Dust and Shadow, Jennifer!

John.

[Jennifer]

John,
I find myself continually comparing the ACD Holmes to the non-ACD Holmes and that makes the reading itself tiresome. It would always be in the back of my mind, "does this sound like the real thing???" I guess it's just the nitpicker in me that "knows" I am reading someone else's Holmes and I pick things apart. Not an enjoyable way to read!
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

I'm with John on "Dust and Shadows," Jennifer. It was so perfectly done in Watson's voice, and the story made sense, it didn't have Holmes meeting vampires, werewolves, witches, zombies, or teleported into the future. It was beautifully written and meticulously researched. It was Holmes vs Ripper, and that almost stopped me for reading it as there are some really terrible pastiche with that theme, but this book had a conclusion that made perfect sense and was a fresh view on the case.

I did not enjoy THOS, it was not well written, it had (beyond grammatical errors) errors in its internal time line, and God help us, errors in Canon, things that should not have gotten through the editing process, but did. It also had plot points that were so far from Holmes I was screaming at the book. Holmes would not be caught flat-footed when walking into a trap that he knew was a trap and was prepared to defend himself because it was a trap. That just made no sense and was poor writing! poor plotting!! Horowitz admitted he wrote it in 1/2 the time he usually takes to write a book. This was a rush to publish that was, sadly, poorly done in so many ways. Again, this is just my opinion, but I read so many pastiche I feel I can spot a good one vs one poorly done. :)

Lyndsay Faye's next book (out in March) "The Gods of Gotham" (http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Gotham-Lyndsay-Faye/dp/0399158375/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327508653&sr=8-1) (not a Holmes book) is really good, also. I was allowed to read the MS last year and was so taken with the characters she developed I asked her if she would be doing another using them and she answered that she was currently writing the sequel.

[Jennifer]

Well you did such a perfect job of shredding "HOS" that I will give Lyndsay a shot...You are right, HOS was badly done. It was as if Holmes got blurrier and blurrier as the story went on. I don't have enough Holmes knowledge to have caught all the errors. I must look and see if some poor soul has done that because I do want to increase my knowledge so I won't fall prey to such slapdash work again. Initially I thought Watson's narration hit the right notes but you pointed out how faulty the entire venture was with such clarity...I am embarrassed to say I said it was okay because I didn't want to disparage yet another book....
jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

Jennifer, it is just my opinion, but I did feel pretty strongly about that book and having discussed it with other, and frankly, more knowledgeable Sherlockians, I feel justified in saying it was just not up to Canon standards, but Lyndsay Faye's effort was!!

I still admire Horowitz, especially his "Foyle's War," which is totally his creation, from top to bottom, just felt very strongly that the "Doyle Estate Seal of Approval" went to everyone's head and they rushed to publish something that was not up to snuff.

[Jennifer]

Alice,
I am embarrassed that back in Dec. when I finished HOS, I gave it an okay pass. I didn't know enough about Sherlock to know how shoddy it was. I knew that I didn't want to read about Victorians and their unsavory activities and I can't imagine ACD putting that to paper either. Here's my bias. If I can not see the original author writing about the subject, I can't believe the pastiche. I can see ACD writing about scandal and bad people doing bad things but I just couldn't see this topic in his hand. I thank you for your concise review!
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

I have THOS from the library. It's lying on the floor beside my bed. I'm on chapt 3 and was already bored so I read the end which Holmes sums everything up brilliantly in a wonderful soliloquy....

Truth is, it'll probably be returned unfinished to the library when I take the boys on Sat.

[annie]

What a great expression! Do you know the origin of it? (I found a use in a poem in a 1905 edition of The Oxford Magazine, but it was in quotes, implying that it was already in use as an expression.) Sorry, I know this is digressing again -- getting away from our mutton -- but I'm hopelessly curious.

It's from the French "revenons a nos moutons" - let's get back to our sheep - a reference to shepherds getting diverted from the job they were supposed to be doing.
The English, slightly silly translation, refers to the fact that we name meat from the French (beef, pork, mutton) so deliberately mis-translates "mouton" as "mutton" rather than "sheep".
It may also slightly reference Regency times when mutton was so commonly eaten at dinner time (beef for holidays, pork only in season & chicken for clergy) that sometimes people were invited "to eat mutton" meaning "dinner"; so it also meant "get back to our food, stop nattering!"

[Jennifer]

I have THOS from the library. It's lying on the floor beside my bed. I'm on chapt 3 and was already bored so I read the end which Holmes sums everything up brilliantly in a wonderful soliloquy....

Truth is, it'll probably be returned unfinished to the library when I take the boys on Sat.
Good move. Don't waste your time any further....
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

Good move. Don't waste your time any further....
Jennifer

I don't know the original Holmes enough to judge but I do like a story that catches my attention and would probably finish it if it had. But, I was bored. I read the "game" at the beginning where he told Watson why he was staying and it just didn't flow. Not like the conversation btwn Holmes/Russell in BEEK.

If you have to sum a book up with a full explanation of the mystery in the last few pages... it should leave the reader with a number of questions on the plotting through the middle.

Truth is, btwn the library pile, the home tbr pile and the one's on my kobo I bought during Xmas when they had decent coupons and a few there were free.... I rarely read a book that doesn't grasp me fairly quickly to the end. Too many other books to read out there.

So, are you going to try some from my list. Warning the Iceland ones are dark, gloomy. But these http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/47397.Arnaldur_Indri_ason the author keeps it short of allowing his characters to wallow which keeps me reading. The overall plots in the end are not all that complex. Most also refer to happenings during WWII that you may find interesting since the US had a base there at the time.

[Jennifer]

So, are you going to try some from my list. Warning the Iceland ones are dark, gloomy. But these http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/47397.Arnaldur_Indri_ason the author keeps it short of allowing his characters to wallow which keeps me reading. The overall plots in the end are not all that complex. Most also refer to happenings during WWII that you may find interesting since the US had a base there at the time.

Thanks for the warning. I live in Wisconsin so I have way too much dark and gloomy in my life already. And I don't read a lot of stuff set in current time. It all seems fairly dark in it's outlook. I honestly use reading as an escape so it's kind of hard for me to predict what I like specifically. I've been reading old mysteries lately. I love the fact that I am reading about a time written during that time. I know that there wasn't one way to see the world then either, but it does seem like it was a bit less chaotic.
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Really want to read some Terry Pratchett but have no idea where to start! Any ideas??

[Jennifer]

Hey Amy,
Seems like "The Color of Magic" is the place to start with the Terry Prachett and his "Discworld" series. I shelve enough of his books, pick enough of his books for other readers in other libraries, to know he's very popular! A movie was made out of "The Color of Magic" a few years ago.
Happy reading!
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

Started The Ghost Lake: The True Story of Louis Agassiz by John Tiner.

Agassiz was the Swiss geologist who discovered the existence of the Ice Ages (which remnants were often taken as proof of the Biblical Deluge).

[annie]

Yet again I post after Steve, and lower the tone!
I am reading dear Jilly Cooper's latest: Jump, about a racehorse syndicate.
I have a feeling that she is less read in the US than here.
Her work is just like the English middle-class gels she writes about - beautiful & adorable, no substance, but too sweet & good-natured to criticise. She is an acute observer, and to my mind, a successor to Jane Austen both in the strata of society she writes about and the way she pokes fun at "follies, whims & inconsistencies".
When stressed, I sink into Cooper world where drinks are enormous, men are handsome, dogs & horses are adorable and everyone gets their just desserts.
She is worth reading for her lyrical description of the English countryside, ridiculous puns and the way she quotes unfashionable poets.

As BBC radio are currently serialising Bolt by Dick Francis, I am enjoying the races second-hand (too busy at the moment to get to a real one!)

[SCWillson]

Started The Ghost Lake: The True Story of Louis Agassiz by John Tiner.

Agassiz was the Swiss geologist who discovered the existence of the Ice Ages (which remnants were often taken as proof of the Biblical Deluge).Well, I finished the previous book on Louis Agassiz in 2 hours and it was disappointing - really just a junior high level "lives of famous scientists."

I have ordered a bound (and far more substantial) biography of Agassiz.

[SCWillson]

Started The Second Jurassic Dinosaur Rush: Museums and Paleontology at the Turn of the Twentieth Century by Paul Brinkman.

Interesting thus far.

[AmyLizzie]

Hey Amy,
Seems like "The Color of Magic" is the place to start with the Terry Prachett and his "Discworld" series. I shelve enough of his books, pick enough of his books for other readers in other libraries, to know he's very popular! A movie was made out of "The Color of Magic" a few years ago.
Happy reading!
Jennifer

I've seen it! It had the wonderful David Jason in it and the voice of Ian Richardson, loved it! Actually...it had Mary from Downton in it as well...mmm...thanks Jen, I'll try it...

[Jennifer]

I've seen it! It had the wonderful David Jason in it and the voice of Ian Richardson, loved it! Actually...it had Mary from Downton in it as well...mmm...thanks Jen, I'll try it...

Speaking of Mary from Downton Abbey, we are just seeing Series 2 and I just saw the end of the 3rd episode, where Mathew walks in after being reported missing and I was yelling at the screen! "Run to him, you dolt! Run to him and then kiss him to a fare-thee-well!" But did she listen to me? NO!
Jennifer

[Jennifer]

I just finished David Kessler's "The End of Overeating" and it was chock full of research findings (not that they were a big surprise!) and lots of insight into the problem of overeating. I know it's not "light" or "fun" reading but I found it invaluable to understanding why I am the way I am! And sadly, what the American food industry is willing to do to capitalize on human tendencies...
I feel much better armed to overcome a great deal of the temptation out there!
Jennifer
(And then I rushed right back to the fun reading! "Murder on the Orient Express!")

[AmyLizzie]

Just a random query from the Brits around or anyone who has heard of Morecombe and Wise, have you ever read any of Eric Morecombe's novels? I've just read Mr. Lonely and I have to say I really enjoyed it. It was such an unexpected side to his character...thoughts appreciated...

[Jennifer]

Amy,
I have never heard of Morecombe and Wise? Are they characters in a novel or a comedy team? I can look them up of course, but I wouldn't mind hearing about them from you! I am still patiently waiting to see me some Sherlock. The local station just showed the first series (yet again!) but somehow it didn't lessen any pangs....This lag is just silly....
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Amy,
I have never heard of Morecombe and Wise? Are they characters in a novel or a comedy team? I can look them up of course, but I wouldn't mind hearing about them from you! I am still patiently waiting to see me some Sherlock. The local station just showed the first series (yet again!) but somehow it didn't lessen any pangs....This lag is just silly....
Jennifer

:eek: They are soooo well known here that I find it impossible that anyone on the planet doesn't know who they are!! They were a comedy duo, from the North who are considered the best Double Act ever, but they are very British. They were from the North of England (where all the best comedy comes from IMHO) and started in about 1940ish and continued until Eric's death in 1984. Ernie died in 1999. I LOVE them, I grew up with them (as did practically the whole country) and their Christmas specials are on every year without fail and still pull in audiences. It's a bit hard to explain why they are so important to me, nostalgia I suppose and the fact that they were genuinely nice men - which I think is a rare among comics nowadays- and their comedy was warm and gentle - again in short supply these days - and they meant something to England and what England is. Anyway,enough rambling, I've put a link to a good website below if you interested;

http://www.morecambeandwise.com/

Oh and a youtube clip that just makes me smile :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/ZedhoqYdfTM

[annie]

No, I didn't know about the novels and will look for them. Of course I know Morecambe & Wise, Amy has described them very well.

[Jennifer]

Seems like these two men were just good performers, didn't need profanity or sadly shocking behavior to get a laugh, just very light-hearted, good-natured fun. We had comics like that, Danny Kaye, Red Skelton, but for the last good many years, comics here don't seem to be able to get on a stage without bad language and shocking topics. They use them almost as weapons and all the truly funny things they might have to say get swamped. Sad, but there it is.
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Seems like these two men were just good performers, didn't need profanity or sadly shocking behavior to get a laugh, just very light-hearted, good-natured fun. We had comics like that, Danny Kaye, Red Skelton, but for the last good many years, comics here don't seem to be able to get on a stage without bad language and shocking topics. They use them almost as weapons and all the truly funny things they might have to say get swamped. Sad, but there it is.
Jennifer

It's true :( I love Danny Kaye as well, much missed men all round!

Annie - the novel is interesting. It contains a lot of jokes that eventually ended up in some of the sketches and it's quite dry humour as well as being a bit dark - not VERY dark but dark enough for Eric Morecombe! Very interesting as a study of humanity! Or maybe I'm reading too much into it...

[SCWillson]

I've started The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times by Adrienne Mayor.

The book discusses how prehistoric remains (skeletons, etc.) were taken as evidence of giants, dragons, etc., by our ancestors. (As an example there is a large extinct giraffe species with 4 horns which looks amazingly like what you'd expect a dragon's skull to look like.)

[Millie]

Nothing. I'm reading nothing.

It's a reflection on how crazy (there's another "cra" word I could use...) my life is right now, that I cannot remember the last time I read a book.

This is unheard of. It might be time to ask for some help.

[vicki]

Yes, help is good. Audiobooks can also be a lifeline to the too-busy bibliophile, although some people tend to take to them better than others.

[Lenore]

I started listening to audiobooks when I was going through a similar crazy period -- Mother in nursing home an inconvenient drive away, carpooling children every day (with the car necessarily empty but for me on one side of each trip) -- and found that, if I kept an audiobook in the car and an audiobook in the kitchen, I could get in at least 15 minutes of "reading" once or twice a day. The ability to do something entertaining for myself in this way significantly increased my happiness level. Since then I have discovered mp3 players for my audiobooks, which means I can listen when doing the sort of tedious chores that require me to move from one room to another or be in the yard. Millie, I really recommend you give them a try -- although that doesn't mean that you shouldn't also ask for help.

[farmwifetwo]

Nothing. I'm reading nothing.

It's a reflection on how crazy (there's another "cra" word I could use...) my life is right now, that I cannot remember the last time I read a book.

This is unheard of. It might be time to ask for some help.

If I don't read I don't sleep. Even if it's a re-read for an hour btwn the time they go to bed at 9 and asleep by 10. I just can't shut it down otherwise.

[farmwifetwo]

Yes, help is good. Audiobooks can also be a lifeline to the too-busy bibliophile, although some people tend to take to them better than others.

I tune them out too easily.

[annie]

Thinking of you Millie. It is at those times that I turn to poetry - I have a few volumes by my bed for emergency reading when I can't manage a novel.
I trust that your life will settle down soon and allow you some more time & space.

[tangential1]

I've seen it! It had the wonderful David Jason in it and the voice of Ian Richardson, loved it! Actually...it had Mary from Downton in it as well...mmm...thanks Jen, I'll try it...

OMG! Totally didn't recognize her! I'll have to watch that again.

The discworlds are all practically stand-alone. There might be carry-over characters, but you don't really need to know what happened previously to be fully entertained by the book. My absolute favorites are actually the ones featuring Death, starting with <i>Mort</i>. Rinsewind (from <i>Color of Magic</i>) isn't quite as awesome.

I've been MIA for quite a while. I gained an addiction to Tamora Pierce towards the end of last year. I read her newest books at the beginning of last year and liked them but was reading other things so I didn't go looking for anything else she'd written. And then I was waiting around for her newest in October and ended up picking her <i>Alanna: The First Adventure</i> and that quartet from the library and just fell in head-first. I finished the last of her books in her other universe last weekend and now I'm kind of book jumping trying to find something that really fits my current reading mood.

[SCWillson]

I've got two going right now:

Grant and Sherman: The Friendship That Won the Civil War
Charles Bracelen Flood

Owen’s Ape & Darwin’s Bulldog: beyond darwinism and creationism
Christopher Cosans


I was looking at my 2012 list and realized 8 of the 9 books I've finished since January 1st were Kindle books. Time to read some more "real" printed books. Both the books above are paper.

[Jennifer]

There is a newish phenomenon, books that come from the writings people do on their blogs. Have any of you read any of them? I don't know how many there are but I have read two. The first was by accident. It looked like a good book and only after I started it, did I realize it was based on a blogger's writings. I admit after I started listening, I became puzzled. It was very casual. The story seems like a memoir-lite. It was embarrassingly confessional for me but the writer also talked about food! I wasn't sure what exactly it was supposed to be because I have not followed many blogs so I wasn't aware of how personal they could get and then turn into something completely different the next day! And lucky me, there the whole conglomeration was in one book! You get your sex, your recipes, your delightful chatty knowing discussion of Parisian eateries, BAM! All in one place! And so, my second blog-based book was also a panoply of delights (not so much sex with this one, surprisingly!) It was Ree Drummond's "The Pioneer Woman: From high heels to tractor wheels" and it was mainly the story of her meeting and marrying her Oklahoma cowboy husband. I would have paid more to get her a greater variety of adjectives to describe her Adonis of a hubby but, I will say this for her, she knew her grammar! So it is entirely possible in this day and age to be an educated woman, use your objective case pronouns properly, work a ranch and raise your children while writing and editing your own life story! Whew! Tired just thinking of it...
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

There is a newish phenomenon, books that come from the writings people do on their blogs. Have any of you read any of them? I don't know how many there are but I have read two. The first was by accident. It looked like a good book and only after I started it, did I realize it was based on a blogger's writings. I admit after I started listening, I became puzzled. It was very casual. The story seems like a memoir-lite. It was embarrassingly confessional for me but the writer also talked about food! I wasn't sure what exactly it was supposed to be because I have not followed many blogs so I wasn't aware of how personal they could get and then turn into something completely different the next day! And lucky me, there the whole conglomeration was in one book! You get your sex, your recipes, your delightful chatty knowing discussion of Parisian eateries, BAM! All in one place! And so, my second blog-based book was also a panoply of delights (not so much sex with this one, surprisingly!) It was Ree Drummond's "The Pioneer Woman: From high heels to tractor wheels" and it was mainly the story of her meeting and marrying her Oklahoma cowboy husband. I would have paid more to get her a greater variety of adjectives to describe her Adonis of a hubby but, I will say this for her, she knew her grammar! So it is entirely possible in this day and age to be an educated woman, use your objective case pronouns properly, work a ranch and raise your children while writing and editing your own life story! Whew! Tired just thinking of it...
JenniferJen, I don't know if you're interested in science or evolution but this guy's blog is one I read daily: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/laelaps

He just published a book last year, Written in Stone, which I read on my Kindle a few weeks ago.

[Jennifer]

What, pray tell, did you think of the book, Steve? I catch on to these trends really late in the day but I am sort of fascinated by bloggers that write books. Someone, a long time ago (2004...) said I should "blog!" But now that I have read more bloggers, I think I would have the least interesting blog possible. I don't have a specialty like your science blog, not anything that I could maintain for any length of time, and I don't have a fabulous life. Apparently Steve, (you will love this,) Mormon moms have really popular blogs. Anyone out of the mainstream is endlessly fascinating to working women! I guess it's always interesting to see how other people live. I will check out your science blogger. Maybe it would appeal to my son who is a big fan of Dan Brown (not the author, thank gosh...) a 20something who does wacky things on a continual basis and reports back to his fans. Taught my kid how to solve his Rubik's cube and made him the sensation of his middle school talent show (solved his cube in a minute and 20 seconds, really slow in the world of Rubik's cube solving though...)
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

There is a newish phenomenon, books that come from the writings people do on their blogs. Have any of you read any of them? I don't know how many there are but I have read two. The first was by accident. It looked like a good book and only after I started it, did I realize it was based on a blogger's writings. I admit after I started listening, I became puzzled. It was very casual. The story seems like a memoir-lite. It was embarrassingly confessional for me but the writer also talked about food! I wasn't sure what exactly it was supposed to be because I have not followed many blogs so I wasn't aware of how personal they could get and then turn into something completely different the next day! And lucky me, there the whole conglomeration was in one book! You get your sex, your recipes, your delightful chatty knowing discussion of Parisian eateries, BAM! All in one place! And so, my second blog-based book was also a panoply of delights (not so much sex with this one, surprisingly!) It was Ree Drummond's "The Pioneer Woman: From high heels to tractor wheels" and it was mainly the story of her meeting and marrying her Oklahoma cowboy husband. I would have paid more to get her a greater variety of adjectives to describe her Adonis of a hubby but, I will say this for her, she knew her grammar! So it is entirely possible in this day and age to be an educated woman, use your objective case pronouns properly, work a ranch and raise your children while writing and editing your own life story! Whew! Tired just thinking of it...
Jennifer

Many bloggers do this.

As for PW, she has her detractors - http://themarlborowoman.com/ A good case of envy from her and on the side of the homepage above you'll find the others. Bloggers are not obligated, nor are writers, to tell you every little thing about their lives. Personally, if you can make a living from it... go for it.

[SCWillson]

What, pray tell, did you think of the book, Steve? I catch on to these trends really late in the day but I am sort of fascinated by bloggers that write books. Someone, a long time ago (2004...) said I should "blog!" But now that I have read more bloggers, I think I would have the least interesting blog possible. I don't have a specialty like your science blog, not anything that I could maintain for any length of time, and I don't have a fabulous life. Apparently Steve, (you will love this,) Mormon moms have really popular blogs. Anyone out of the mainstream is endlessly fascinating to working women! I guess it's always interesting to see how other people live. I will check out your science blogger. Maybe it would appeal to my son who is a big fan of Dan Brown (not the author, thank gosh...) a 20something who does wacky things on a continual basis and reports back to his fans. Taught my kid how to solve his Rubik's cube and made him the sensation of his middle school talent show (solved his cube in a minute and 20 seconds, really slow in the world of Rubik's cube solving though...)
JenniferI enjoyed the book. It was a bit light so far as evolution was concerned (As you all know, for a layman I'm a pretty serious student of evolution and paleontology) but a good introduction for the novice to the topic. And both Switek's blogs are on my daily reads.

I'm not nearly narcissistic enough to write a blog or even bother with a Facebook page. ;)

[SCWillson]

Started Principals of Geology or, the Modern Changes of the Earth and its Inhabitants Considered as Illustrative of Geology by Sir Charles Lyell. This science classic was one of the just published books Charles Darwin read while on his famous voyage to South America and the Galapagos. Not passively either. Principles of Geology was still being published and Darwin received the later volumes while he was on The Beagle. Darwin, then an unknown naturalist in his 20's, realized while he was traveling that Lyell's theory in the book on how coral reefs formed was incorrect. Upon returning to England he wrote Lyell with his evidence and Lyell corrected it in subsequent editions.

[MaryL]

Declared a holiday from professional journals over Christmas and read "the Little Women Letters" by Gabrielle Donnelly-I really enjoyed it. She takes the premise that the March sisters were real, and they have descendants living in London now who find Aunt Jo's letters. Very well done. It then led me to getting "Little Women" on my (new) Kindle (one of the free downloads), and re-reading that. Which led me to a "Louisa Mae Alcott, the Woman Behind Little Women". Miss Alcott's father was one of the original American free-thinkers. Abolitionist,Founded a commune, didn't believe in owning property-or in paying his debts-felt, like Mr. Micawber, that something would turn up, allowed his wife and children to pretty much starve-but he knew EVERYONE important in his day. Thoreau, Hawthorne, Beecher Stowe, Wordworth, was related to most of the movers and shakers in Boston, expected and got a private interview with Lincoln despite the War. Reminded me strongly of some of the less violent '60s radicals. 1960s. Maybe if they taught more of this kind of History we would see things coming?

[Millie]

Declared a holiday from professional journals over Christmas and read "the Little Women Letters" by Gabrielle Donnelly-I really enjoyed it. She takes the premise that the March sisters were real

I read this book a few months ago, Mary. I enjoyed it, but have a vague feeling that *something* about it annoyed me. I can't for the life of me think what it was, but I do remember on the whole that I enjoyed it, although it wouldn't be a re-reader for me.

I've taken the plunge and downloaded "A Morbid Taste for Bones" onto my iphone, and I'm listening to it in the car. Looking forward to reading/commenting on that discussion.

I've also forced myself to read for a few minutes before I go to sleep - I used never to be able to sleep unless I'd read, but things change - and I've started "A Trick of the Light", by Louise Penny. Love, love, love Annie Gamache's comment about murder being a "cottage industry" in Three Pines!

When I have the chance, hopefully on Thursday, I'll pop into the library to work out how to download books from their site.

[Jennifer]

I discovered a wonderful thing! I can read an old-fashioned book on the treadmill when I walk and the time flies by! Our fancy treadmills have tv's on them and you plug in your earbuds. But alas, you all probably don't know how vertically challenged I am. I am not a little person but I am a short person. And I used to get such a stiff neck looking up to the heavens where the tv screen on my treadmill is placed! So now, I am getting ready to start a book about E.B. White's childhood and "the real Charlotte!" Can't wait. I got a serious crush on him in the early 90's and read everything about him and the New Yorker that I could find at the time. This is new so I can't wait to walk! I think if it's possible, I will only read this book when I walk. Gotta milk that anticipation thing...
Jennifer

[Millie]

I discovered a wonderful thing! I can read an old-fashioned book on the treadmill when I walk and the time flies by!

Genius. Race ya!!

[Jennifer]

Genius. Race ya!! You are on, m'dear!
Jennifer
PS Been reading about Paul but mostly lurking on my own facebook!

[Jennifer]

I had to give up on my E.B. White book. Early on the writer mentioned that it always distressed White that his mother wouldn't let him have a dog in their fine Mt. Vernon home so his long succession of canines had to live in the cellar. That broke my heart, I am not sure if I am silly or touched in the head, but it broke my heart to think of a family's pet living in isolation like that. Of course the little boy took his dog out as much as possible but otherwise...So I knew that image would haunt me and I abandoned ship! I need suggestions for some good reading, non-fiction, not depressing if possible. The weather here is gray and bone-chilling. I need sun....
Jennifer

[Lenore]

I need suggestions for some good reading, non-fiction, not depressing if possible. The weather here is gray and bone-chilling. I need sun....
Jennifer

Try Winston Churchill's autobiography of his early life, called (not surprisingly) My Early Life. Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/EARLY-LIFE-1874-1904-Winston-Churchill/dp/0684823454. He was a very good writer and I was just fascinated.

[annie]

I have a book that never fails to cheer. The author describes it as "a circular book" so it can be started at any point. It is in little chunks that make for easy reading.
I am not always a fan of memoirs, but am fascinated by stories of childhood, that give us insight into another time or culture, but also show us how universal so many childhood experiences are.
The book is called Period Piece, by Gwen Raverat (nee Darwin - she was a grand-daughter) and describes her childhood in 1880s Cambridge in beautiful detail (she became an artist). Here you will see the Darwin family & Cambridge academics through a child's eyes.
Jennifer - I think you will love it, and watch out for the Canopy Tiger!

I am ploughing through V is for Vengeance, more in sorrow than anger. Ms. Grafton has gone on a bit too long; her decision to keep Kinsey in her own time means we are still reading about the 1980s, and Kinsey's oddities are becoming irritating & weird. However, it's still just good enough to make me want to read to the end!
Sara Paretsky is facing a similar challenge with VI, but has kept her in real time. So she is just getting a bit too old for all the scrapes she gets into and the way she never seems to learn from her mistakes.
Dear Sharon McCone is ageing gracefully!

[SCWillson]

I had to give up on my E.B. White book. Early on the writer mentioned that it always distressed White that his mother wouldn't let him have a dog in their fine Mt. Vernon home so his long succession of canines had to live in the cellar. That broke my heart, I am not sure if I am silly or touched in the head, but it broke my heart to think of a family's pet living in isolation like that. Of course the little boy took his dog out as much as possible but otherwise...So I knew that image would haunt me and I abandoned ship! I need suggestions for some good reading, non-fiction, not depressing if possible. The weather here is gray and bone-chilling. I need sun....
JenniferIf you are a fan of Winston Churchill (as I am) then the first volume of William Manchester's Churchill biography, The Last Lion, is a wonderful read. It's probably the only non-fiction book I've read enough times to dog ear. :)

[Jennifer]

If you are a fan of Winston Churchill (as I am) then the first volume of William Manchester's Churchill biography, The Last Lion, is a wonderful read. It's probably the only non-fiction book I've read enough times to dog ear. :)
You know I would love these books but I am so in the habit of listening to books that I always look for them at the library in audio. Let me go over there and see if I can find them in audio. I know Lenore's suggestion is not on cd. I really need to up my technological game. This is getting a little tedious...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

You know I would love these books but I am so in the habit of listening to books that I always look for them at the library in audio. Let me go over there and see if I can find them in audio. I know Lenore's suggestion is not on cd. I really need to up my technological game. This is getting a little tedious...
Jennifer

You've got to learn to download these books onto an mp3 player. You don't need an iPod -- I use an inexpensive ($25 from Amazon) Sansa player. In fact, not all downloadable audiobooks will play on iPods, but all Overdrive audiobooks will play on most of the less expensive ones that play both mp3 and wma files (the Zune is the exception). The Churchill autobiography is available from Overdrive (assuming your library is a member); I know because I listened to it that way, as well as the first two volumes of the Manchester biography of Churchill. (And Steve is right -- they're great -- although the second volume, covering 1932 to 1940, is a little depressing because it appears that Churchill was almost the only person in British politics who recognized the threat that Hitler represented until war was upon them.)

[Jennifer]

Well I guess it's time to face facts. I have got to find something, like you said, an inexpensive mp3 player or something, to do this deed with. Missing too much waiting and hoping for cds to come out. They do, many times, but I am tired of being at their mercy...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

Really, because the mp3 players are so much lighter and more portable than CD players, you will wonder how you ever lived without one. And if there are books available only on CD and not downloadable, it is perfectly possible to upload the CDs to your player.

[Jennifer]

Well Lenore,
You've opened up a world of possibilities for me. I never thought of getting something that just did what I needed to do, rather than an ipod which does a lot of things I don't care much about (like surfing the web in my dentist's office!). Off to see what I can manage. It has to be able to work with apps, isn't that right? I mean, you down load from your own computer in conjunction with the library and overdrive. I am sitting at your feet. Teach me...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

Well Lenore,
You've opened up a world of possibilities for me. I never thought of getting something that just did what I needed to do, rather than an ipod which does a lot of things I don't care much about (like surfing the web in my dentist's office!). Off to see what I can manage. It has to be able to work with apps, isn't that right? I mean, you down load from your own computer in conjunction with the library and overdrive. I am sitting at your feet. Teach me...
Jennifer

I am going to PM you with some basic instructions. But first of all, I should tell you that, if your library (as most U.S. libraries) subscribes to OverDrive or NetLibrary, I'm sure your library either gives tutorials or the librarian can show you in about five minutes. It is really easy even for persons like myself with pretty much zero technical skills.

[SCWillson]

I have started Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid MacCulloch. I read his excellent book on the Reformation a year or two ago.

I have also started The Forbidden Best-Sellers of Pre-Revolutionary France by Robert Darnton, which cover books which were officially illegal in the years before the Revolution. This covers not just politically subversive literature such as written by Rousseau and books published in violation of copyright but also works deemed by the censors to be prejudicial to morality (such as pornography) and works critical of the state (ie, Catholic) church. In the 21st century we think of pre-Revolutionary literature as being classics such as written Voltaire or Spinoza, but it appears that those works were dwarfed in readership by the illegal works this book discusses.

I have a confession to make here: The previous book I was reading, Charles Lyell's Principles of Geology, has proven just too tedious. I should have tackled his latter textbook written years later for college-level students as a distillation of this work instead. I may tackle it again in the future but I only managed to make it through 20% of the book. :o

[Jennifer]

I am now gifted with "I Am Half-Sick of Shadows!" I believe this is the 4th Flavia De Luce and so far, it is very pleasing to the ear! I say this because Jayne Entwistle is reading it and she gives Flavia and all those wonderful Yorkshire folks just the right sound! Who ever knew that a reader could do such a great job interpreting the story. She's right up there with Jenny Sterlin in my book! I'm very pleased this story seems equal in quality with the first three. I'm beginning to have quite a new respect for writers who can keep a series going for several books. Lately, other series have been petering out and losing their snap!
Jennifer

[Millie]

I've just finished listening to "The Last Sherlock Holmes Story", by Michael Dibdin.

SPOILER: the premise is that the Yard asks Holmes to help solve the Jack the Ripper murders. Holmes insists that it's Moriarty doing the killings. As the story progresses it becomes increasingly clear that Holmes is, in fact, Moriarty. Holmes becomes more and more unhinged, and eventually Watson sees Holmes butchering one of the victims. Eventually Holmes and Watson travel to Reichenbach Falls, where Watson plans to kill Holmes. Holmes regains his senses at the last minute and commits suicide.

Did I like the book? As a Holmes story, no, I didn't. The idea that Holmes and Moriarty are one and the same is so alien to everything I've read before that I just couldn't credit it. Besides, OUR Holmes isn't a murderer!

However, and this may be the talent of the actor who read it, the depiction of madness and delusion was realistic and chilling.

Has anyone else read this?

[Elizabeth Chase]

I'm working my way through The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich; currently reading the section on Hitler's persecution of Christians. I shall persevere even though it is limiting my other reading! Flavia's latest is waiting along with A Woman in Black.

[Jennifer]

I've just finished listening to "The Last Sherlock Holmes Story", by Michael Dibdin.
Did I like the book? As a Holmes story, no, I didn't. The idea that Holmes and Moriarty are one and the same is so alien to everything I've read before that I just couldn't credit it. Besides, OUR Holmes isn't a murderer!
Has anyone else read this?

First, good to see you are reading again! That's a wonderful thing! But will I be reading this particular pastiche? No! A resounding NO! But that said, it seems a story of this kind was begging to be written. When you have so many pastiches, someone has to go to a place that none of the others has been. (I don't know about the broad array but has any other pastiche been so completely different from the Holmes we know?? )

Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

First, good to see you are reading again! That's a wonderful thing! But will I be reading this particular pastiche? No! A resounding NO! But that said, it seems a story of this kind was begging to be written. When you have so many pastiches, someone has to go to a place that none of the others has been. (I don't know about the broad array but has any other pastiche been so completely different from the Holmes we know?? )

JenniferYes, currently there is a plethora of pastiche making Holmes a vampire, the Dali Lama, or even one of the faeries. Really!! Do these people know Canon...NO, are they trying to hitch onto the Holmes rising star and make a buck...YES!! :mad:

[Jennifer]

Yes, currently there is a plethora of pastiche making Holmes a vampire, the Dali Lama, or even one of the faeries. Really!! Do these people know Canon...NO, are they trying to hitch onto the Holmes rising star and make a buck...YES!! :mad:
Well, there's certainly no accounting for taste. This is the age where the unthinkable must be thought, brave new world.
Jennifer

[SCWillson]

I have to say that Laurie's pastiche of Holmes is almost the only one I've ever found readable, although Larry Millett's Sherlock Holmes and the Red Demon and its sequels set in turn-of-the-century Minnesota are pretty good. Of course they are not trying to morph Holmes and Watson into something unrecognizable but rather are just filling in a blank period in Holmes' lifetime. These could even plausibly be before Holmes meets Russell without changing anything.

[Jennifer]

Yes Steve,
I am thankful for LRK's Holmes because she seems to have caught the spirit and doesn't seem interested in twisting him into a pretzel just for the fun of it...
Jennifer

[jtb1951]

Reading the latest Kate Shugak tale by Dana Stabenow, Restless In The Grave, and there is a scene with a librarian who mentions a certain mystery writer named Laurie King!

John.

[annie]

For some reason, I love it when writers reference others, or other work, it feels like the childhood delight of being in on a secret!
I am also agreeing that LRK's Holmes in the only readable one, although I did like House of Silk when done on the radio, and have enjoyed both the modern BBC Holmes, and Guy Ritchie's version (the only one, I felt, to capture Holmes' physical prowess)
The Woman in Black is a real tour-de-force. It is astonishing to think that it was written when Susan Hill was only 18, putting her in that select band of authors who were successful at such an early age, like Francoise Sagan and the woman whose name escapes me who wrote The Outsiders (powerful closing paragraph)
I think that Susan Hill's more recent detective novels have been mentioned here (if only by me!)
I am reading the second in Ian Sansom's wonderful Mobile Library series - if anyone ever wants to know what Northern Ireland feels like, this is it!

[Jennifer]

Annie,
Did you know that the author of the Flavia series mentioned Mary Russell in one of his Flavia mysteries?????
Jennifer

[MaryL]

Jen: Which one? I missed it!

[Lenore]

the woman whose name escapes me who wrote The Outsiders (powerful closing paragraph)


S.E. Hinton

[annie]

Thanks both - I'm afraid Flavia is still on my TBR.
Of course, SE Hinton - she did a tiny cameo in the film of The Outsiders.

[Pat Floyd]

I am ploughing through V is for Vengeance, more in sorrow than anger. Ms. Grafton has gone on a bit too long; her decision to keep Kinsey in her own time means we are still reading about the 1980s, and Kinsey's oddities are becoming irritating & weird. However, it's still just good enough to make me want to read to the end!
Sara Paretsky is facing a similar challenge with VI, but has kept her in real time. So she is just getting a bit too old for all the scrapes she gets into and the way she never seems to learn from her mistakes.
Dear Sharon McCone is ageing gracefully!

I haven't gotten around to V Is for Vengeance yet. It's low priority. I liked Sara Paretsky's penultimate book, but I returned her latest, Breakdown, unread. It was too much like our current political climate with some of the media and candidates spewing hate and making unfounded allegations. I couldn't stand any more in fiction, even if VI was on the side of the angels. IMO Marcia Muller has just the right touch in developing the Sharon McCone series.

[SCWillson]

Well, there's certainly no accounting for taste. This is the age where the unthinkable must be thought, brave new world.I'm guess I'm just too puritan for these days. I remember the distaste I felt when somebody (I think it was here) told me that there was pornographic Harry Potter fan-fiction. :eek:

Although I have published at Letters of Mary one bit of Holmes -Russell fanfic and written a half dozen short stories over the years about my role-playing characters (the superhero-genre character I have been role-playing for 20 years - ЭлЪф (Zl'f) is female) over the years not one of those stories has ever even suggested sex. Never have I made even a character I've created engage in bizarre out-of-character behavior; to do so to the creation of another author is frankly rather déclassé at best and at worst... Well, you get the idea.

[Jennifer]

I'm guess I'm just too puritan for these days. I remember the distaste I felt when somebody (I think it was here) told me that there was pornographic Harry Potter fan-fiction. :eek:

Although I have published at Letters of Mary one bit of Holmes -Russell fanfic and written a half dozen short stories over the years about my role-playing characters (the superhero-genre character I have been role-playing for 20 years - ЭлЪф (Zl'f) is female) over the years not one of those stories has ever even suggested sex. Never have I made even a character I've created engage in bizarre out-of-character behavior; to do so to the creation of another author is frankly rather déclassé at best and at worst... Well, you get the idea.
You know, I am old-fashioned too, and pretty darn tired of apologizing for it. I say if you want to write pornography, write it but don't take perfectly good characters that have touched so many people's hearts and twist them around into some foul sordid bit for your own pleasure.
Jennifer

[Jennifer]

Yes,
I just posted. But I also wanted to say that as I am reading my 4th Flavia, I find that Alan Bradley has done more than just create a precocious 11 year old. He has written these characters with a great deal of heart and meaning. Yes, technically these books are mysteries but he's not just writing a mystery of clues and corpses but also the mystery of what makes a family, what holds it together, the good and the bad, the love, the anger, the loyalty and care and words we can not always say. I am getting a little lost but I did want to give him all the credit he's due.
Jennifer