Quick survey: What are you reading today? [Archive] - Page 9

Pat Floyd

05-22-2009, 03:06 AM

I'm reading Laurie R. King's O Jerusalem, and I'm almost done.

How lucky to be reading OJER for the first time. If you haven't read Justice Hall, you might read it next; that is, unless you haven't read A Monstrous Regiment of Women, which should come before JUST, IMO.

I've just finished Gertrude Bell: Queen of the Desert, Shaper of Nations, by Georgina Howell. I was very impressed with Bell's six lengthy journeys in the deserts of the Middle East, her influence in establishing the nation of Iraq and instituting a stable government that lasted for 37 years until 1958. Her expert knowledge, forcefulness, patience, and diplomancy enabled her to overcome male resistance to a role no other woman had at the time. Until a biography of T. E. Lawrence was published, Gertrude Bell was the better known. A terrific movie could be made of parts of her life. General Allenby of OJER appears briefly. He and Gertrude liked and respected each other.

Bachi

05-22-2009, 05:50 PM

...
Meags, I will check out the Leon books, for sure. I believe I read the first one she wrote. She has been really prolific since then.
...

This is good to hear. I read the first book, because Leon came very highly recommended by a good reading buddy, but I wasn't really taken in.
w

annie

05-22-2009, 08:10 PM

Currently reading 'The Count of Monte Cristo' and I love it! It's my fiancees favourite book and he kept nagging me to read it so I have finally sucummbed and it's so amazing I can't put it down - although I am only on Chapter 52 out of 117! But I think it's worth it...

I love it! I'm a huge Dumas fan. Like so many novels of the era it can go on and on......but wonderful characters and plot. About 6 weeks ago I was going right along the coast by the Chateau d'If.........

Jennifer

05-22-2009, 08:22 PM

Currently reading 'The Count of Monte Cristo' and I love it! It's my fiancees favourite book and he kept nagging me to read it so I have finally sucummbed and it's so amazing I can't put it down - although I am only on Chapter 52 out of 117! But I think it's worth it...
Those long, wonderfully-winding tales make me think of what life must have been like before television, radio and computers vied with reading for our attention and amusement. Probably tremendously less frenetic, more thoughtful.
Jennifer

Meags2387

05-22-2009, 08:24 PM

This is good to hear. I read the first book, because Leon came very highly recommended by a good reading buddy, but I wasn't really taken in.
w

Bachi,
I can understand not being taken in by the first Donna Leon book. It's not horribly exciting and there's not really any suspense. However, I found Comissario Brunneti to have been given a great sense of humor. -Meags

Bachi

05-22-2009, 09:26 PM

Bachi,
I can understand not being taken in by the first Donna Leon book. It's not horribly exciting and there's not really any suspense. However, I found Comissario Brunneti to have been given a great sense of humor. -Meags

Well based on what I've heard hear, she is certainly worth another try.
w

Millie

05-23-2009, 12:36 AM

I've been meaning to try Donna Leon for a while, mainly for the setting.

I've been silent on this thread for a bit...I've been indulging in all four Twilight books. The first three, I was a bit ambivalent about (and yet, I kept reading), but I thought the last one was great.

I've also read LANG, but I'll leave comments for the discussion (Alice, you were fab, may I say!), and I've read the latest 2 Maisie Dobbs, which led to a re-read of the others.

Ok, In-laws just arrived to babysit while dh and I go to the races (Corporate tent, lots of yummy fizz). Back later!

Meags2387

05-23-2009, 01:16 AM

I think you're all right, there's something about the Leon mysteries being set in Italy that makes them so appealing. Almost as if it were some exotic land. And I have to admit, I love picking up the random little terms that she throws in there. It reminds me of reading LRK's books and picking up random Arabic and Hindustani words. :) -Meags

Bachi

05-23-2009, 04:52 AM

I have a big -NEVERMIND- confession, I went back and checked and although I do have the 1st Leon, I haven't read it yet. That same friend also recommended Andrea Camilleri and I read his 1st Inspector Montalbano's novel "The Shape of Water". He is an Italian author so I got that part right.
:o w :o

Bachi

05-23-2009, 06:57 AM

I recently read a book by Ruth Downie the 1st in her Ruso Series entitled "Terra Incognita". This is another series set at the edges of the Roman Empire in the year 118. When I first purchased it I thought it was the Roman series u-all were talking 'bout, but Ruso is not Falco and I don't now if these two have any similarities. This series seems to be more about various relationships with a mystery and some local politicking. It was enjoyable but I don't think it gave a real feel for the time it's suppose to represent.

Jennifer

05-23-2009, 11:55 AM

And I have to admit, I love picking up the random little terms that she throws in there. It reminds me of reading LRK's books and picking up random Arabic and Hindustani words. :) -Meags

Meags,
You must like Amelia Peabody for that reason as well. I am always impressed with how many Arabic words get worked in and and reinforced. I studied Arabic once upon a time and it's a pleasure to hear the words pronounced on my audio versions. It does give a tremendous amount of verisimilitude, doesn't it?
Jennifer

Meags2387

05-23-2009, 04:36 PM

Meags,
You must like Amelia Peabody for that reason as well. I am always impressed with how many Arabic words get worked in and and reinforced. I studied Arabic once upon a time and it's a pleasure to hear the words pronounced on my audio versions. It does give a tremendous amount of verisimilitude, doesn't it?
Jennifer

Jennifer,
I do like the Arabic I pick up in Amelia Peabody. I also like how they are a bit lighter than some mystery series I read. And having a little bit of the language used in the book does add a lot to the book. I am often so tempted to pick up the language learning CDs and see how much I know. It also makes it interesting to watch movies that are set in the Middle East, even if it's just for a little bit, like in Iron Man. I always get so excited when I hear a word that I know. -Meags

Jennifer

05-23-2009, 04:57 PM

Jennifer,
I do like the Arabic I pick up in Amelia Peabody. I also like how they are a bit lighter than some mystery series I read. And having a little bit of the language used in the book does add a lot to the book. I am often so tempted to pick up the language learning CDs and see how much I know... I always get so excited when I hear a word that I know. -Meags

You know those learning tapes and cd's are fun and getting more and more sophisticated by the day. The library usually has a wide variety. Try there first. Also, I am constantly thrown by how easy it is to underestimate Amelia. Yes, there's so much tongue-in-cheek that it's tempting to write them off but the history is good, the events around their work are legit, it's as if Ms. Mertz gave Amelia this persona to lull you into discounting her. I find that a whole other interesting side to the books. But you are right, the tone of Amelia Peabody is much lighter than so many mystery series.
Jennifer

Bachi

05-23-2009, 11:15 PM

...
I thought I'd post the link to the author's site here, if you don't mind, Wanda.
http://rsdownie.co.uk/

good idea!
w :)

annie

05-26-2009, 08:09 AM

Those long, wonderfully-winding tales make me think of what life must have been like before television, radio and computers vied with reading for our attention and amusement. Probably tremendously less frenetic, more thoughtful.
Jennifer

I think of that especially when I read Tom Jones - all those little asides and homilies - it makes you realise how ground-breaking Jane Austen must have seemed.
The nice thing is that some of these 18/19C novels which are very long-winded to read have such wonderful plots and characters that they are naturals for film.
I just watched the Man in the Iron Mask on TV - the one with Gabriel Byrne as D'Artagnan. Leonardo di Caprio as the twins leaves much to be desired, and the dialogue is poorly written in parts; but the trio of Malkovitch, Depardieu and Irons are magnificent, and it's a visual treat - especially the last show-down when they come out of the smoke.

tangential1

05-26-2009, 06:08 PM

Those long, wonderfully-winding tales make me think of what life must have been like before television, radio and computers vied with reading for our attention and amusement. Probably tremendously less frenetic, more thoughtful.
Jennifer

We got rid of cable last summer so my TV is just for movie watching...and I find I don't really miss it. And I spend all day at work on the computer so I tend to avoid that when I get home too. So my evenings are taken up with walking the dog, cooking dinner, knitting and reading. I feel like I've taken this huge step back. And it is most definitely more thoughtful...although maybe not all that much less frenetic:rolleyes:

I've been doing a lot of rereading again (Stephanie Plum, Amelia Peabody and Harry Potter all at once!), so not much to mention on this thread for a while now. I am on to the next Jane Austen for my next Austen book club meeting (next month!). Mansfield Park, which is one of my favorite movies...hopefully I'll like the book just as much.:p

Jennifer

05-27-2009, 12:25 AM

I got "The Language of Bees" today! I was playing Russian Roulette with our cooperative library system, watching my number go down, watching the number of copies, which ones were coming back in, how many were overdue. It got down to 3 people in my library were due to get a copy, I was number3! I knew this weekend could do it, what with the volume of books that would be coming back in from a 2-day close (is this way more public library minutiae than I should admit to??). To make a long, only personally interesting story short, I got it! You all know I do not buy many books so this was a personal quest. I would have bought it, had things been worse. I had a coupon! But now I can read and be happy and very cheap!
Jennifer
PS The summer we went without tv was wonderful! I was young, unmarried and it was definitely less frenetic, given those boundary conditions!

Pat Floyd

05-27-2009, 12:51 AM

I've said of myself that I've never learned to watch TV. When I was growing up our family listened to specific radio programs, but my mother abhorred the idea of leaving a radio on all the time. In the late 1950s I enjoyed watching Perry Mason and a program that followed it at a friend's house. I was given a TV, which I gave away because I watched so infrequently and did the same with a TV I bought myself. I finally kept one and enjoyed the Star Treks, M.A.S.H., and some public TV programs. Now I watch some specials, sports, news, DVDs, and videos. I know I've missed a lot of popular culture. I hear about programs and sample them, but I'd hate to have to watch on a regular basis. I like quiet.

Interestingly, the computer and internet are an entirely different story. I hate to be away from them for more than a few days.

I've re-read LANG and liked it even more on second reading, read a Donna Leon book on the basis of recommendations here and enjoyed the Venice locale, and re-read some Susan Wittig Albert's China Bayles books, favorite cozies.

Jennifer

05-27-2009, 03:13 PM

Hi all readers who've completed LANG:
Fill me in. I was reading something at the beginning of the book (no spoilers, I promise!) and came across a reference to "The Art of Detection" as a source of Russell-Holmes history. Would someone who's read "The Art of Detection" be so kind as to fill me in? I thought the book was a modern mystery so I hadn't read it, being well into period fiction.
What's the story?
Jennifer

Jennifer

05-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Thanks Sheri,
Is it necessary (anyone?) to read "Art of Detection" in order to fill in all the blanks or is it a fun but non-necessary add-on? I am swamped just now and can't think of starting another book!
Jennifer

Strawberry Curls

05-27-2009, 05:03 PM

The Art Of Detection has a manuscript that the readers knows was written by Holmes and left (with the typewriter with the wonky "a") in the attic of the Pacific Height's home of Russell's family. TAoD story revolves around whether or not it is a genuine "Doyle" story about Holmes (as it is written in first person and Holmes is never mentioned). Doyle was in San Francisco in the 20s and could have written it, but the readers of the Russell books recognized all types of hints that it was written by Holmes about an adventure he had while his partner was off on family business. Hope that helps, but it really doesn't relate to LANG accept for the fact it refers to the time Russell and Holmes spent in San Francisco in the last book.

tangential1

05-27-2009, 05:18 PM

it really doesn't relate to LANG accept for the fact it refers to the time Russell and Holmes spent in San Francisco in the last book.

Agreed. It was a fun side story, but not necessary to understand what's going on for LANG.

Pat Floyd

05-27-2009, 05:38 PM

What the story does is round out and complete things that happened in LOCK.

Strawberry Curls

05-27-2009, 11:28 PM

I just discovered today that I'm only two books away from finishing the Russell and Holmes books. Oh no. What do I do now?

:DAh, that is a simple fix. Read them again. These books are like onions, the more you read them the more layers you find. They have depth and the richness of the settings and the language never fails to delight. IMHO (Says she who has read each book multiple times and is currently listening to the audio version of LANG after reading the book three times. The first time was just a skim read, so it hardly counts.)

Lest you think me mad, I am also finishing the first Charles Todd, Inspector Rutledge book, and have started the much lauded (and rightfully so) pastiche of Holmes by Lyndsay Faye called Dust and Shadow. It is the best work on Doyle's Holmes that I have ever read. She has really captured the voice and the characters from the Canon. :)

Jennifer

05-28-2009, 12:20 AM

I'm beginning to go into panic mode. I just discovered today that I'm only two books away from finishing the Russell and Holmes books. Oh no. What do I do now?
:D

Out of somewhat morbid curiosity, which two have you got left?
Jennifer

LindaE

05-28-2009, 01:16 AM

Out of somewhat morbid curiosity, which two have you got left?
Jennifer

I don't have Locked Rooms and Language yet, Jen. I tried to get Locked, today but the store didn't have it.

I had to settle for Cyrus Barker and Thomas Llewellyn in Limehouse Text. From what Meags told me that will be no hardship! :D

Pat Floyd

05-28-2009, 02:19 AM

Strawberry Curls

05-28-2009, 03:27 AM

Hi Alice, By coincidence I saw a new one by Faye today, in which Holmes tracks the Ripper. I'll have to wait on the paperback for that one. I'll look into her books. Inspector Rutledge...sounds familiar, but I can't think if I've read any of those.

Yes, I'll probably reread the LRKs soon. :) Especially O Jer.Hi back, Linda. Yes, Dust and Shadows is a Sherlock Holmes vs Ripper, but boy does she nail Doyle's voice in this. This book is light-years above most the pastiche I have read. I've really been enjoying it.

"Test of Wills" is the first Inspector Rutledge book. They are written my a mother and son under the pen name Charles Todd. I met the mother at B'Con, a delightful woman, but I hadn't read any of the books. A good friend loves them, and I finally got around to starting the series. They are very well done. Rutledge survived WWI to return to police work but he has a sort of companion, a souvenir from the war, who takes this book out of the ordinary police procedural. They are a bit on the psychological side, a bit darker than I usually like, but so well written and the plot is complicated enough it has kept me guessing.

annie

05-28-2009, 10:19 AM

It is a modern mystery but they find a house full of all things "Holmes"..... was it Mary Russell's?????????

That's how they fit together.

Sheri

I always fancy that the house describes was in fact the Russell house, but I have no idea if that is the intent - and as I've never been to SF, certain descriptions and names of locales mean nothing.

Meags2387

05-28-2009, 01:25 PM

Well I finished the Barkere Llewelyn series and I want more!!! It was such a fabulous series and I can't wait for the next one. But I'm very excited because Victoria Thompson is coming out with another of her Gaslight mysteries on June 2nd! I am so excited about it! In the meantime I am reading about India once again. I have two big books on the Mughals that I am going to read and then I can acutally get back to reading fiction. -Meags

LindaE

05-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Strawberry Curls

05-28-2009, 09:13 PM

I glanced at Touchstone today and wondered if there was a connection to Mary. I'm still in the process of catching up to the rest of you on Mary.Only in the fact that it is set in 1920s UK, but the protagonist is male and it has a much more masculine feel to the story. I quite enjoyed it and found the characters of Harris Stuyvesant and Bennett Grey very compelling and wanted to see them again when the book ended. Laurie has mentioned that she would like to write another book or two with these characters.

annie

05-28-2009, 09:13 PM

I finally just had to have them order me Locked Rooms. I glanced at Touchstone today and wondered if there was a connection to Mary. I'm still in the process of catching up to the rest of you on Mary.

It took me a long time, and much beating over the head by some of the girls on Suz Brockmann's old board before I tried BEEK. I was a big Kate fan from the beginning, but couldn't believe that I would like something that was: an artificial sequel; a historical written "out of time"; a book set in England written by an American; these all press the wrong buttons for me - but that is history. Huge respect to Ms. King for pulling it off.

Jennifer

05-28-2009, 11:16 PM

I've scanned another biography of Gertrude Bell, Desert Queen, by Janet Wallach, the one listed by Laurie. It's dated 1996 and the one I read first was 2003, I think. I had hoped one would be shorter and more popularly written, but both are over 400 pages. Wallach is a little less complimentary of Bell.

I was wondering when you'd get to the less complimentary views. I have never read much about Gertrude Bell directly but I have run across mentions of her in other things and they have not been all that positive. It's funny you should catch on to the point that she was the heroine of the situation until Lawrence came on the scene. I believe she may have been outshone by Lawrence because he was such a tragic figure. She was unabashedly proud of her efforts (and you may say rightly so) and he felt a terrible guilt in wanting to serve his country and yet, wanting to help Arabs gain their independence and freedom. It's sad that this interests me when if you stood back, you could say with justification that the British, the West in general were interfering in the Middle East. And why aren't the Middle Eastern players themselves as fascinating to me and many others? Quite a conundrum.
Jennifer

Pat Floyd

05-29-2009, 06:30 AM

I was wondering when you'd get to the less complimentary views. I have never read much about Gertrude Bell directly but I have run across mentions of her in other things and they have not been all that positive. It's funny you should catch on to the point that she was the heroine of the situation until Lawrence came on the scene. I believe she may have been outshone by Lawrence because he was such a tragic figure. She was unabashedly proud of her efforts (and you may say rightly so) and he felt a terrible guilt in wanting to serve his country and yet, wanting to help Arabs gain their independence and freedom. It's sad that this interests me when if you stood back, you could say with justification that the British, the West in general were interfering in the Middle East. And why aren't the Middle Eastern players themselves as fascinating to me and many others? Quite a conundrum.

Wallach was not so much uncomplimentary of Bell as reporting more negative opinions of her. Many men in her day were unwilling to accept a woman in the roles she assumed and the responsibilities she was given to the point of considering such a thing perverse. However, she was in the position of having information no other European possessed at a time when such information was needed. She and Lawrence shared a love for Arabs and a desire for their independence. I think Bell saw Arab independence as in Britain's best interest. She was three times disappointed and often unwise in love, but with standards that didn't allow her to participate in adultery or fornication. She could indeed be proud and dismissive of people she didn't care for.

King Faisal of Iraq and Ibn Saud of Arabia would make interesting biographies. I think language and culture are barriers. How many people in the Middle East at the time (or since for that matter) had the leisure to write biographies or a market for them, and how many Europeans had a mastery of Arabic to pursue primary sources?

annie

05-29-2009, 10:43 AM

Wallach was not so much uncomplimentary of Bell as reporting more negative opinions of her. Many men in her day were unwilling to accept a woman in the roles she assumed and the responsibilities she was given to the point of considering such a thing perverse. However, she was in the position of having information no other European possessed at a time when such information was needed. She and Lawrence shared a love for Arabs and a desire for their independence. I think Bell saw Arab independence as in Britain's best interest. She was three times disappointed and often unwise in love, but with standards that didn't allow her to participate in adultery or fornication. She could indeed be proud and dismissive of people she didn't care for.

King Faisal of Iraq and Ibn Saud of Arabia would make interesting biographies. I think language and culture are barriers. How many people in the Middle East at the time (or since for that matter) had the leisure to write biographies or a market for them, and how many Europeans had a mastery of Arabic to pursue primary sources?

I've not read those books, so am not commenting on them in particular. But there were a number of Europeans who specialised in Arabic studies; enough to write books - I know quite a few were written in the 19/20C. There was a strong connection of course, and I have a public health book written at the end of the 19C with advice for those going on Hajj.
But of course we interfered - all the time - all over the world, and the world is still suffering from it. You guys were the wise ones!

Jennifer

05-29-2009, 11:53 AM

jtb1951

05-29-2009, 11:54 AM

Well I finished the Barkere Llewelyn series and I want more!!! It was such a fabulous series and I can't wait for the next one.

I agree, Meags, it's a very enjoyable series and I think they have gotten progressively more interesting as both Llewelyn and Barker's past stories are unfolded. I'm anxiously awaiting the next one as well!

John.

annie

05-29-2009, 01:11 PM

Annie,
This is a huge debate and I know you are aware of everything I am going to say but I just can't reduce the British Empire down to interfering around the world. Reading my daughter's history book, as frustrating as it was, it reminded me of the race to "own" the world. The shift in technology development towards European nations led to such a vacuum. Some European country would have been "Britain" had it not been Britain. And as terrible as we can say the British Empire was, I can now safely compare it to a number of other empires and say that it was not the worst by a long shot. I am not tooting the horn, but being realistic. As facile as the British outlook may have been during empire, to constantly look back and disparage is equally self-indulgent.
Jennifer

Can't disagree! Way more complex than the sentence I wrote, and as you say, not all bad, and maybe better than others.
Who knows what might have happened if "we" hadn't interfered? The quotation marks are because my family were all rural labourers + the odd gypsy, and had no say in any of those decisions. By the time they had the right to vote, they voted against "Empire" on the grounds that the ruling class had messed people's lives up at home, so they were probably doing the same overseas!

Jennifer

05-29-2009, 03:01 PM

annie

05-29-2009, 03:26 PM

Annie,
This isn't the place, of course, but you know you have gypsy ancestors? How interesting! I came across a book of English names and looked up mine since I have only even heard of a handful of people with my surname that I am not related to. The story was that my great-grandfather was a miner in England before coming to the U.S. Turns out, his name was common in Cornwall and Dartmoor(I am not sure I am referring to that correctly) but mining country is what it amounts to. I was (sadly enough as a child makes the connections between simple things) elated to find that yes! My name and my story match!
So I am fascinated by the idea of the Gypsies, esp. in England where they always seem to be portrayed so alternately uspiciously/romantically....Should never have read "The Virgin and the Gypsy!"
Jennifer

well, this thread meanders wonderfully! I come from a rural area, and everyone told me about the family going way back, so I know the "family stories" although I have to say that they never let the truth interfere!
My great-grandparents settled, so I don't have any deep knowledge of their way of life, but we did sometimes visit with their old connections when they travelled through the area.
Gypsy / traveller history in the UK is complex, but to reduce it to basics, you have:
Irish travellers
Gypsies, some of whom are Romani; many had set routes and areas, such as the Scottish Borders.
Carnival and funfair travellers, some of whom refer to themselves as Gypsies (and some don't!)
Water gypsies (the "Gyptians" of "Dark Materials")
"New Age" travellers who have taken to a nomadic life more recently.
Traveller Times is the newsletter that brings them togther:
http://www.travellerstimes.org.uk - up on the site at the moment is a video of the blessing at Saintes-Maries-la-mer. There is also a video about Gypsies in WW1, taling about how groups can be "written out" of history - a discussion that has come up on the board.

Cornwall and Dartmoor are not far from each other, and both have wonderful history (Cornwall was not part of England for a long time).
Have you come across Seth Lakeman? Brought up on Dartmoor, his music is influenced by the area's history. Here's the link to his site, the video that introduces it, was filmed at The Minack in Cornwall.
http://www.sethlakeman.co.uk/

Jennifer

05-29-2009, 06:29 PM

Thanks Annie for all that great info. I have to chase down all the links and see what I can see. I understand about being written out of history. After WWII's devastation upon European Jewry, it's hard to get people to pay attention to all the others Hitler did his best to exterminate, Gypsies being prime targets as well.

On an almost completely unrelated topic, have you read LANG? Anyone else out there is welcomed to chime in about this question: Did you notice Mary Russell referring to their time in Japan? There was a throw-away line about being involved in the affairs of the Emperor. I can go back and isolate the quotation. I do not believe it is a spoiler. It seems there may be an entirely other mystery rumminating around. Was this part of the "Art of Detection"s little tidbit? I feel like I need a scorecard at this point to keep up with all the veins and tributarial mysteries waiting in the wings.

Jennifer

Strawberry Curls

05-29-2009, 06:54 PM

On an almost completely unrelated topic, have you read LANG? Anyone else out there is welcomed to chime in about this question: Did you notice Mary Russell referring to their time in Japan? There was a throw-away line about being involved in the affairs of the Emperor. I can go back and isolate the quotation. I do not believe it is a spoiler. It seems there may be an entirely other mystery rumminating around. Was this part of the "Art of Detection"s little tidbit? I feel like I need a scorecard at this point to keep up with all the veins and tributarial mysteries waiting in the wings.

JenniferNo, that is a reference to the beginning of LOCK where Russell relates that they left India and stopped in Japan to answer a peremptory telegram from the Emporor that had reached them in Hong Kong. In fact the first line of the first Chapter of LOCK (there is prologue) starts, "Japan had been freezing..."

Laurie has been asked repeatedly if the story from their time in Japan will be published and usually says something like, "If I can decipher Russell's handwriting it might."

Jennifer

05-29-2009, 08:00 PM

Strawberry Curls

05-29-2009, 08:50 PM

Thanks Alice,
I don't follow interviews as well as I might but I can't help suspect that she will be able to decipher that handwriting. Mentioning it again would be just too cruel otherwise. Her ability to tuck entire stories in where it seems nothing else could be crammed, it's well, prodigious!

Stick with me here. When Victoria's lost fiancés situation' was being addressed in MREG, didn't Russell make some really cryptic but direct remark about the "boy" Holmes lost? Am I just dreaming? Or was it Gabriel? I know this demands a re-read but I just can't start at this time. Still doing LANG the old-fashioned way and it's taking me longer that it would have otherwise.
JenniferThe "lovely lost son" is mentioned twice in MREG. Firstly, Russell and Holmes are in the little bolthole and she asks him to help Miles Fitzwarren (Veronica's ex-fiancé) with his drug addition. When Holmes says he can't , Russell throws "And if he were your son?" at him and he is hurt. She apologizes and we read that she understands that it was a "dirty blow..." " Because you see he did have a son once..." Then later at the Fitzwarren's home, after Iris' is found murdered, Miles is there and Russell is left in the library with him, where she muses that "something in his nervous hands reminded me of Holmes, and of Holmes' lovely lost son." Then there was no further reference to the son until now. The readers have clamored for an answer and now we have it.

Jennifer

05-29-2009, 09:02 PM

Forgive me Alice,
I have to have all the dots filled in. So in MREG, because they had lost track of Damian whom they met briefly after BEEK, they assumed him "lost" as in perhaps dead? Or just lost as in "can't track down?" When these books show up, I realize just how much I let get by me and I feel I need a diagram now to keep track of all the clues and hints I let pass by, unquestioned. I never thought about "that boy." Just let it go. How silly of me (thumps head with flat of the hand...).
Jennifer

Strawberry Curls

05-29-2009, 10:21 PM

Jennifer,

The "lovely lost son" was lost because he dropped off the face of the earth and was presumed dead. We learn about this in LANG. I hope I'm not putting too much by way of a spoiler here, but it has been in most of the reviews.

Jennifer

06-01-2009, 08:59 PM

Strawberry Curls

06-01-2009, 09:24 PM

I'm deep into my first listen to LANG and as is always the case, I'm hearing so much more than I read. This is a complex story and one that has hidden emotional depths and consequences to all the characters. I look forward to our discussion also, it should be interesting.

I'm always worried that I will unintentionally put out a spoiler for someone. I absolutely hate spoilers personally, and avoid reading reviews and such until I have read the book because they so often reveal the whole blasted plot. So, that is why I have said I hope I haven't revealed too much in these posts, as many people read them.

Jennifer

06-01-2009, 11:03 PM

I'm always worried that I will unintentionally put out a spoiler for someone. I absolutely hate spoilers personally, and avoid reading reviews and such until I have read the book because they so often reveal the whole blasted plot. So, that is why I have said I hope I haven't revealed too much in these posts, as many people read them.

Alice,
I've read your posts and you haven't mentioned anything that wasn't pretty much public knowledge. I think we've all been well-restrained. I was worried, tell the truth. I 've been to Harry Potter events where teenagers were reading the last pages and yelling the ending! How rude! Our group shows a high level of civility that way.
Jennifer

LindaE

06-01-2009, 11:10 PM

Don't worry, Alice. I always jump posts when I think there's a chance of a spoiler. I suspect others do as well.

Bachi

06-01-2009, 11:41 PM

I am deep into LANG (no spoilers) and am finding this a very rigorous story. No Russell-Holmes is w/o rigor, of course, but this one has me scatching my head! Good for eradicating the cobwebs! Can't wait to discuss it. Hope I get to listen to it by then. My public library is having a hard time getting an audio copy. Rats!
Jennifer

I'm not sure what the problem is at Recorded Books, but although they have the book to rent (with a wait list), they will not be releasing it for sale until later this month. They claim it is a publisher decision. On the other hand, Audible has LANG available for purchase NOW. Publisher: Recorded Books. ?go figure?
I had some points left over from a 'no longer available' program with Recorded Books and was going to use them to rent LANG, but after 4 agonizing days (knowing it was available through Audible), I couldn't stand it and asked them to remove me from the wait list and quickly went over and used one of my precious Audible credits to get it NOW!!!

Millie

06-02-2009, 02:04 AM

Should never have read "The Virgin and the Gypsy!"
Jennifer

One of the Maisie Dobbs books, ''An Incomplete Revenge'', focuses on Gypsy life in 30s. It's interesting, and explains a lot about Maisie herself. (Trying to avoid spoilers...)

I had a huge excitement the other day. At my mother's house, I came across a box of books. (No surprise at her house; there's boxes of books literally all over the house.) Sitting on the top was ''The Trumpet of the Swan'', by EB White. As a child this was one of my favourite books. I liked it a lot more than Charlotte's Web, and I hadn't seen it since. So I stole it. LOL.

Bachi

06-02-2009, 06:40 AM

...
I had a huge excitement the other day. At my mother's house, I came across a box of books. (No surprise at her house; there's boxes of books literally all over the house.) Sitting on the top was ''The Trumpet of the Swan'', by EB White. As a child this was one of my favourite books. I liked it a lot more than Charlotte's Web, and I hadn't seen it since. So I stole it. LOL.

It's the little things in life that are so rewarding! :cool:
w

KarenB

06-02-2009, 11:09 AM

My DD and I yesterday went through the overflowing bookshelf of children's books we have and sorted into: 1) keep on the shelf, 2) keep for posterity (many of the really fun board books went here - Moo, Baa, La, La, La anyone? and 3) donate to the Friends of the Library book sale. So now we have more room on the shelves! How long do you think it will take us to fill them up?

LindaE

06-02-2009, 03:26 PM

At my mother's house, I came across a box of books. (No surprise at her house; there's boxes of books literally all over the house.) LOL.

Now, you've done it, Millie. Based on this evidence they will quickly figure out that you are my daughter. :D They mystery is sol-ved; the secret is out.

Pat Floyd

06-02-2009, 04:25 PM

I've just finished Nevada Barr's Borderline and enjoyed it.

Millie

06-03-2009, 02:41 AM

Now, you've done it, Millie. Based on this evidence they will quickly figure out that you are my daughter. :D They mystery is sol-ved; the secret is out.

LOL Linda, did I get my thievin' ways from you too?;)

tangential1

06-03-2009, 04:59 PM

and 3) donate to the Friends of the Library book sale.

A bit of a tangent for this thread: I usually donate my "clear out the shelves" books to the library book sale and have always wondered if the library goes through those books that are donated to see if any of them are books they might want to put on their shelves. Either books they don't have in the collection or books that are in better condition than the copies they have. One would think this would be a more cost efficient use for some of those donated books than selling them for a quarter.

Jennifer

06-03-2009, 05:35 PM

Hi Erin,
Our library sells all donations. Even the really wonderful stuff. That goes for much more than a quarter. And the new books that people do donate, go for more as well. It's the paperbacks in our system that go for the small change. It's just too dicey to add a book that might have mold and we get all new books at approximately the same time as the public, and multiple copies if it's a bestseller because we strive to anticipate our patrons' needs. The sales seem to be such a popular way of getting people into the library and no librarian has time to sort through the literally thousands of donations we get in a year. Most publics really are up to their necks in donations. But it's all good because wonderful readers come in, buy them and redonate them!
Jennifer

KarenB

06-03-2009, 05:53 PM

LaideeMarjorie

06-03-2009, 06:39 PM

I might have this wrong, but I think that our library gives the Friends a "wish list" to see if there are any books they want to be added to the library collection.

Karen,

Speaking of wish lists, I went to the library today and found out how to request a purchase. I asked for the CD Audiobook of "The Language of Bees". They have it already in downloadable form, but I do not have an IPod that can handle a book. Since they have the other Mary Russell books in CD form, I hope that they do eventually get this one as well.

As far as reading, I just finished my first Dana Stabenow book, "A Cold Day for Murder" (the first Kate Shugak book) and I enjoyed it very much. I am now finally reading the second Louise Penny Three Pines book, "A Fatal Grace" and 50 pages in, I am bowled over by her talent to create characters that you would like to sit down with and share a cup of tea. And I also recently finished Lyndsay Faye's "Dust and Shadow", a new Sherlock Holmes novel that was very well done. The people over at Letters of Mary told me about that one and they were right about how compelling it is and how good a job Ms. Faye does with Doyle's world. Such riches all around!

--Marjorie

Strawberry Curls

06-03-2009, 06:53 PM

And I also recently finished Lyndsay Faye's "Dust and Shadow", a new Sherlock Holmes novel that was very well done. The people over at Letters of Mary told me about that one and they were right about how compelling it is and how good a job Ms. Faye does with Doyle's world. Such riches all around!

--Marjorie I so agree!! I too decided to read "Dust and Shadow" because of the discussion and recommendations over on LOM (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Letters_Of_Mary), and it really is marvelous. I only have a few chapters left on that, and the new Victoria Thompson Gaslight Mystery appeared on my Kindle last night (a pre-order). That and the fourth Barker/Llewellyn is on the Kindle along with some other wonderful books that will tide me through my excursion to England. I leave tomorrow and with weight such a problem in luggage now, the Kindle is a blessing. I won't be able to purchase new books while out of country, but I have loaded it up so I'm set.

jtb1951

06-03-2009, 07:01 PM

I just finished my first Dana Stabenow book, "A Cold Day for Murder" (the first Kate Shugak book) and I enjoyed it very much.

Hi, Marjorie!
This past winter I got hooked on the Kate Shugak books and enjoyed them primarily because of Dana's wonderful characterization of Kate, and I will eagerly read all future Shugak tales. However, that being said, imho Dana Stabenow is a good writer, but she ain't no Laurie R. King. Dana seems to have an unfortunate disregard for consistency of detail in her novels, which may seem nit-picky, but which is one of my pet peeves. After you read through the first dozen Shugak's I would be curious if you find anything bothersome in Dana's description of one of her major male protagonists. <climbs off his soapbox>

John.

LaideeMarjorie

06-03-2009, 07:13 PM

Hi, Marjorie!
This past winter I got hooked on the Kate Shugak books and enjoyed them primarily because of Dana's wonderful characterization of Kate, and I will eagerly read all future Shugak tales. However, that being said, imho Dana Stabenow is a good writer, but she ain't no Laurie R. King. Dana seems to have an unfortunate disregard for consistency of detail in her novels, which may seem nit-picky, but which is one of my pet peeves. After you read through the first dozen Shugak's I would be curious if you find anything bothersome in Dana's description of one of her major male protagonists. <climbs off his soapbox>

John.

John!

Well, I can already agree with you that the Stabenow book felt like an enjoyable appetizer of a book, fun but not enough to be a satisfying meal of a book. I can't imagine feeling the need to read the book a second time to draw out more of the depth of it, which is not at all true of Laurie's books. I know that Laurie and Dana are friends and I saw Dana at Bouchercon 2008 (where she gave away a huge spoiler for those of us who hadn't read the books yet!), and she has been on my "to be read" list for a while now because she was a great speaker and she got me interested. I have ordered the second Shugak, so I certainly liked the book enough to read more in the series.

Thanks,
Marjorie

tangential1

06-03-2009, 07:17 PM

Dana seems to have an unfortunate disregard for consistency of detail in her novels, which may seem nit-picky, but which is one of my pet peeves.

Mine too, John; although I admit, I don't always catch small descriptions discrepancies.

annie

06-03-2009, 08:10 PM

One of the Maisie Dobbs books, ''An Incomplete Revenge'', focuses on Gypsy life in 30s. It's interesting, and explains a lot about Maisie herself. (Trying to avoid spoilers...)

I loved that Maisie Dobbs. Django Reinhardt is a role-model for young gypsies - and Elvis has a big following , he is claimed as one of their own.
By co-incidence, in preparation for my hoped-for New York trip, I went to the Stop You're Killing Me site to look for detective novels set in NY. I came across a couple written by Martin Cruz Smith in the 70s featuring a gypsy antique dealer called Roman Grey. As I know little of the Gypsy migration to the US, it makes an interesting read.

Jennifer

06-03-2009, 08:11 PM

I might have this wrong, but I think that our library gives the Friends a "wish list" to see if there are any books they want to be added to the library collection. I would assume that those are then checked out carefully to make sure they aren't damaged or moldy or whatever before adding them to the library shelves. The book sale itself is a good deal. There were over 12,000 books this year and most very cheap. I have bought books there and then donated them the following year and once I bought back a book I had donated and then later changed my mind about. :o

Hey Karen,
I can imagine a library might want to keep an eye out for things. I think it's probably got something to do with the staffing and the particular bent of the library's collection management. Our system has a collection development team so they collect for the entire system as well as providing cataloguing. Not everything of course but bestsellers and other kinds of high demand stuff. And I misspoke too. I just remembered I donated a copy of "The Chosen" on DVD right before the High Holy Days a couple of years ago and since the system didn't have it, our adult services librarian gratefully added it. But I spoke with her personally which may have had something to do with it getting her attention. We have even sold some of the really expensive donations on websites I believe. Every library has its own ways, of course...It's fun to compare strategies.
Jennifer

Bachi

06-03-2009, 08:17 PM

Hi Erin,
Our library sells all donations. Even the really wonderful stuff...
Jennifer

**clicking over to find out if the audiobooks I donated to the Library actually made it to the shelves** :eek: I sure hope so since I specifically purchased 2 - third books in trilogies to complete them for the library.
w

Whew - the one's I donated a few months ago are there, the ones I just donated aren't showing up yet, but it may take a while!

KarenB

06-03-2009, 08:40 PM

tangential1

06-03-2009, 08:59 PM

Hi Erin,
Our library sells all donations. Even the really wonderful stuff.

It's just too dicey to add a book that might have mold and we get all new books at approximately the same time as the public, and multiple copies if it's a bestseller because we strive to anticipate our patrons' needs.

That does make me rather sad, although I see your point. The one time I tried to replace a book that had been damaged while I had it, I was floored by how picky the librarians were about the replacement copy (I had found a nearly pristine used copy and asked if it would be alright and they said no, so I had to go buy a truly new copy...the alternative being a fee that was double the cost of the book:eek:). Who knows where all the donated books have been stored and having all of them sitting together could contaminate the good ones as well.

So perhaps it depends on the way you donate. Presenting the librarian with a new book you think would be a good addition verses them having to wade through all the booksale giveaways.

Sorry for the diversion:o Back to our regularly scheduled book discussion.

Jennifer

06-03-2009, 10:09 PM

So perhaps it depends on the way you donate. Presenting the librarian with a new book you think would be a good addition verses them having to wade through all the booksale giveaways.

Erin,
Truthfully, our donations are all in a separate room for sorting. After hearing all your stories of giving to libraries, I think the way to go is to know the collection, what it needs and then (as someone mentioned) offer things they do not have. And speak to them as to the probability of adding it. Sheri, I think it's fair to ask if they might be needing a book and if the librarian will deign to give you an answer, don't give it if the answer is "no." In my Collection Development class (a million years ago) we had to deal with case studies. One was so completely maddening and entirely probable. A man wanted to donate all his books on dogs and dog breeding. He wanted a memorial shelf to him with a little brass plaque. The collection was sizeable but the librarian had to refuse on those terms. The library would have been full of memorial shelves if she'd accepted his terms. I have seen bookplates in our library that mention in who's name the book has been given. I think that's entirely appropriate.
Jennifer (sorry for additional diversion)

Shaybo

06-03-2009, 10:11 PM

I'm reading The Last Oracle by James Rollins I started reading it Yesterday and I'm almost done.

Pat Floyd

06-04-2009, 12:25 AM

I have a friend who is very allergic to mold in books. Secondhand books that seem fine to me have him tearing and sneezing.
At their on-line site our library system tells how to request books. So far they've ordered every book I've requested, but this year city budget is tight with reduced library hours.

Millie

06-04-2009, 07:25 AM

You were performing a rescue operation, of course.

But of course!:p

LaideeMarjorie

06-04-2009, 12:57 PM

Oh Marjorie! Aren't Louise Penny's books great! I picked up the first one after hearing her at B'con last fall and promptly read my way through all four. She has been nominated for an Anthony this year as well as another of my favorites - Vicki Lane. And I love the Dana Stabenow books. Her sense of humor never fails to entertain and she has great characters. She has apologized for the height differential sometime or another, John!

They are great! I am now about 100 pages into "A Fatal Grace" and it just rolls along with so many interesting people, all complex, all very human. At the moment, I wish I could just move to Three Pines (for those of you who don't know the books, it's a very small village about 90 minutes outside of Montreal) and leave all of my current circumstances behind! I better start to learn to speak a bit of French, however! I am very glad that you liked the 3rd and 4th books as well. That gives me good things to look forward to.

--Marjorie

Pat Floyd

06-04-2009, 02:45 PM

I also love Louise Penny's books. Unfortunately I've read them all.

KarenB

06-04-2009, 03:22 PM

She is writing another! and the first draft is done so it should be out within the year.

Jennifer

06-04-2009, 04:30 PM

LaideeMarjorie

06-04-2009, 04:43 PM

Hey Someone,
You all keep talking about Louise Penny. Tell me about her, where to start, does she have more than one series? What's the story? I am itching to pick something up that is new (now that I have finished LANG and must keep mum) so give me an idea of what she's about. I went to her web site but you all keep waxing eloquent over her. I like hearing from you all.
Jennifer

Hey Someone Else,

;););)

Start with the first in the series, "Still Life". (That is the American title. Her books change their names in different countries.)

--Marjorie Someone

Pat Floyd

06-04-2009, 04:50 PM

Jennifer, I think the first thing I like about Louise Penny's books is that they are about interesting people, and for the most part good people. Second, I like the location, a village not far from Montreal. I haven't reread any of them (I got them from the library), but they might very well merit rereading. The stories are present day, and good to read when you're wanting something gentler than a gritty crime novel. They may be too tame for someone who likes a lot of danger and suspense. The plots are inventive. I especially liked one that involved a painting. She has only the one series with four book and a fifth due in September according to fantasticfiction.com.

Shaybo

06-05-2009, 09:42 PM

I finished The Last Oracle by James Rollins, and this book that he's written isn't like all the others. In fact it's kind of hard to discribe. Now I'm reading Folly

Pat Floyd

06-06-2009, 04:49 AM

Sheri, it's my go-to site also.

Pat Floyd

06-10-2009, 03:28 AM

Thanks to recommendations here, I've just finished Will Thomas' Some Danger Involved, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Strawberry Curls

06-10-2009, 04:55 PM

Thanks to recommendations here, I've just finished Will Thomas' Some Danger Involved, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
I so agree, Pat, so add my thanks also. I'm on the fourth "The Hellfire Conspiracy" and have loved all the books. The characters and the sense of time and place is very powerful yet just a darn good read. :D:D

Shaybo

06-10-2009, 08:15 PM

I finished Folly and Finished rereading Keeping Watch. Now I'm reading Clive Cussler's Plague Ship. I don't know if anyone has ever read his books, but sometimes his stories border on the Sci Fi and most of his stories deal with the ocean.

2bnallegory

06-10-2009, 08:22 PM

I am still reading the Annotated Sherlock Holmes, the Novels. Like it much but it is very hard to read such a large book in bed:o. Finished A Study in Scarlet and now on The Sign of Four.

Pat Floyd

06-10-2009, 09:38 PM

I am still reading the Annotated Sherlock Holmes, the Novels. Like it much but it is very hard to read such a large book in bed:o. Finished A Study in Scarlet and now on The Sign of Four.

I know the problem. The only thing that works for me with these books is to lie on my side and let the book rest on the bed.

2bnallegory

06-10-2009, 09:47 PM

The trials of a bookreader:) I lie on my side to long reading that way though puts my arm right to sleep. We need a special desk for in bed, with a cupholder;)

Bachi

06-10-2009, 09:58 PM

I just finished "Ballad of The Whiskey Robber" based on a true Hungarian (actually a relocated Romanian) bank robber, who is considered by many Hungarians to be a folk hero. It is written by Julian Rubinstein. I saw it at the library and the back summary sounded hilarious. Although everything said in the summary is true, it isn't quite as hilarious while being lived. To say the least Attila Ambrus was remarkable in many ways and his story is entertaining!

Pat Floyd

06-12-2009, 07:04 AM

Thanks again to VBC members; this time I think it's Alice. I've just finished Charles Todd's, A Test of Wills, set in 1919 England, and enjoyed it very much. It's great to discover new authors I like who have many more books for me to read.

Bachi

06-12-2009, 07:22 PM

Just finished "Death of a Witch" by M.C. Beaton which happens to be #25 in her Hamish Macbeth series set Scotland. It was enjoyable, but as it was my first (did not research, so I was unaware I was walking in the back door) it was easy to discern that there were a lot of established relationships that I knew nothing about.

Pat Floyd

06-13-2009, 08:29 PM

Bachi

06-13-2009, 08:49 PM

I've just enjoyed very much Tea Time for the Traditionally Built, the tenth in Alexander McCall Smith's No. 1 Ladies Detective series. I found this book more deeply satisfying than the previous three.

I enjoy this series and haven't read Tea Time yet so now I'm even looking forward to it more then before. I went back to see what the last 3 were and none really stuck out in my mind so we are probably in agreement on those.
w

jtb1951

06-14-2009, 04:19 AM

I'm still reading SJ Rozan Shanghai Moon came yesterday from the library and I'm half through already. John and Laurie have both rated it 5 stars over on goodreads. I've missed something at the beginning because I haven't read the one before it. This one arrived first but it's not necessary to follow the story.

I hope you enjoy it, Sheri! I've read around a half-dozen of her books now, not in any particular order, and haven't been disappointed by any of them. With all the books of hers yet to read my backlog just keeps getting longer.

John.

Bachi

06-15-2009, 12:41 AM

Finished "The Girl with the Long Green Heart" by Lawrence Block. One of the Hard Case Series. Vicki clued me into the fact that this was a series way back when I read "The Colorado Kid" by Stephen King. Each is a tale (longer than a short story, shorter than a novel (about 6 hrs in audiobook format)) written by a different author. I really enjoyed "The Colorado Kid" which I would think is better in audio do the the fantastic narration. I certainly would not be able to read with the New England Coastal accent the story was told in. So I figured I'd give the rest of the series a try. At first I thought "The Girl..." was very transparent, but the author had more in mind. Although slow at times overall the bit of a twist on old tried and true makes it worth the read.

Millie

06-15-2009, 01:34 AM

I'm reading Falco at the moment (A Dying Light in Corduba). Unfortunately I'm reading them out of order as I get hold of them, but I'm actually finding it interesting to fill in the gaps as I read. I'm looking forward to the day when I have all of them, and can read the series start to finish.

I'm also reading puppy care books. Our darling little Jasper arrived yesterday, and he's doing well. He only cried once last night, and I took him out to wee 3 times during the night, and we've had no accidents yet (touching wood in a very big way, LOL). He's very friendly and loves to play. School holidays are in 2 weeks, so dd can spend all day every day with him...what a gorgeous love-fest that will be :)

Shaybo

06-16-2009, 02:58 AM

Shaybo, I have wondered about the Cussler books. They all have really intriguing titles for an archaeology lover like me! Are they related to archaeological sites or studies?

I gave in to temptation and bought Language of the Bees today, since I'm about 2/3 through Locked.

2bnallegory, I know what you mean. I've been ordering books from a discount house and most of the books are hardbacks. I'm running out of paperbacks! These hardbacks are hard to read in bed. I'm having to develop new muscles just to for that. :)Some of it is archaeology, but he's a very hard writer to describe. He writes so many things and has so many different characters from different books like Dirk Pitt, Dirk Pitt Jr., Kurt Austin, and Juan Cabrillo.

Pat Floyd

06-16-2009, 04:58 AM

I've read Charles Todd's stunning second novel, Wings of Fire, set in 1919 Cornwall, concerning deaths in the family of a poet whose verse was a sustaining power for Rutledge, the protagonist, who had survived the trench warfare of WWI. For less intensity, I followed it with Murder on Lennox Hill, the first Victoria Thompson mystery I've read, which I enjoyed, but anticipated correctly almost every development in the plot.

tangential1

06-16-2009, 04:32 PM

I followed it with Murder on Lennox Hill, the first Victoria Thompson mystery I've read, which I enjoyed, but anticipated correctly almost every development in the plot.

I was able to do that for the one I read by her as well. I'm not nearly as interested in mysteries, I've found, when I figure out what's going on long before the main character does.

Nothing new from me this week. I've got about 170 pages left on Mansfield Park (which I'm really liking for the most part, although I'm a little annoyed with Fanny for being such a pushover. She's obviously pretty smart, but she lets everyone walk all over her.); trying to finish by tomorrow for book discussion!!:eek:

I was given a new book by a friend that sounds interesting; not sure if it's really something I'm going to like, but I'll probably give it a go soon. Called The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters (http://www.amazon.com/Glass-Books-Dream-Eaters-One/dp/0553385852/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245169720&sr=8-1). I'm a little perturbed by the review of it being "a bodice-ripping, action-packed roller-coaster ride of suspense, betrayal, and richly fevered dreams."

Pat Floyd

06-16-2009, 06:40 PM

Maybe the book will be better than the review. I've never felt that ripping was the most seductive way to remove a bodice, and I hate betrayal.

Bachi

06-16-2009, 06:51 PM

...I followed it with Murder on Lennox Hill, the first Victoria Thompson mystery I've read, which I enjoyed, but anticipated correctly almost every development in the plot.

That's always a bit of a disappointment, I always enjoy the ones where the author throw's a curve ball better. One of the reasons I enjoy Laurie's work so much, even if I do anticipate a development correctly every now and again, I never now for sure if I'm going to be correct. Because I've been wrong more often, than right.

Bachi

06-16-2009, 06:58 PM

I was able to do that for the one I read by her as well. I'm not nearly as interested in mysteries, I've found, when I figure out what's going on long before the main character does.

Never understood why authors do this to their characters, it really lowers their appeal.

... I've got about 170 pages left on Mansfield Park ...

Was the movie at all similar to the book?

...The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters. I'm a little perturbed by the review of it being "a bodice-ripping, action-packed roller-coaster ride of suspense, betrayal, and richly fevered dreams."

Sounds busy!

Meags2387

06-16-2009, 07:09 PM

For less intensity, I followed it with Murder on Lennox Hill, the first Victoria Thompson mystery I've read, which I enjoyed, but anticipated correctly almost every development in the plot.
I love Victoria Thompson's mystery series! I admit that the crime plots aren't all that complicated in and of themselves, but I enjoy the banter between Malloy and Sarah. And maybe I'm just not as apt at figuring out mysteries, but I've found that Victoria Thompson adds a certain twist to many of her mysteries that I'm not expecting. I may figure out the general conclusion, but at least in the first book of the series (Murder at Astor Place) there was an added twist that I didn't see at all. I am eagerly awaiting getting my hands on the newest one.
Other than that I am reading "The Painted Veil." I find myself slightly pitying Kitty, but much more in sympathy for Walter. I look forward to finishing this book, even though I'm not much of one for sad ending and all. -Meags

Pat Floyd

06-16-2009, 08:09 PM

I have Murder at Astor Place on hold at the library. I expect it was your suggestion that led me to Victoria Thompson. I like her people and think I will enjoy continuing to read her from time to time as a change of pace.

Shaybo

06-16-2009, 08:22 PM

Iam reading Golden Buddah by Clive Cussler. I'm waiting for The Language of Bees to come in so I can read it.

Meags2387

06-17-2009, 02:03 AM

RE Victoria Thompson---I did read Astor Place but that was the only one. She seems so popular here that I ought to give her another look. Anyone have suggestions on where I should start with this author?

You can really start anywhere you like. I started in the middle of the series because it was the only one I could find at the time and I found that when I read the books before and after it that I could follow the story line very easily. My only suggestion is that you don't start with "Murder on Bank Street" as that is the second to last one and the whole series up till then has been building toward it. The first book is "Murder at Astor Place" and it's really as good a place as any to start. -Meags

Jennifer

06-18-2009, 01:40 PM

I (on the recommendation of you all) picked up "The No.1 Ladies Detective Agency" and I am not sure what to make of it all. I am too conditioned to wait for the punch line after reading so many things where the good was not good. I keep expecting the people do something that ruins my first good impression. You know what I mean. That other shoe that has to drop in so much of popular literature today. The good man wasn't really good. The selfless action was really for craven personal gain. But it isn't happening....yet. I think for modern readers, waiting for this expected disappointment in the character of the characters creates a kind of post-modern suspense of its own. When will I get sucker-punched? Let's see! I am listening to it, (as always) and the reader is amazing. And I am learning to appreciate Botswana. Not a bad deal...
Jennifer

KarenB

06-18-2009, 02:10 PM

Jennifer - I think that's why I like that series. They aren't going to sucker-punch me; they are kind of soothing instead. They are calm books. Not what I always want to read but sometimes exactly what I want to read. There is no terrible evil or depravity, simply human failings and human kindness.

Jennifer

06-18-2009, 03:50 PM

Thanks for understanding, Linda and Karen. At least I am not totally off-base! I know these stories are soothing, in the way that at least I can believe that they are about real people, not perfect but not all bad either. For a brief second I wondered if they fit into the definition of a "cozy." I'll go google that definition but I thought I'd bring up that idea to you all. A cozy is about a manageable world, isn't it? Where the good and evil are recognizable and predictable and there's no challenge to look at things from a different angle or am I putting too much into it?
Jennifer

Pat Floyd

06-18-2009, 04:21 PM

For a brief second I wondered if they fit into the definition of a "cozy." I'll go google that definition but I thought I'd bring up that idea to you all. A cozy is about a manageable world, isn't it? Where the good and evil are recognizable and predictable and there's no challenge to look at things from a different angle or am I putting too much into it?
Jennifer

Jennifer, these books don't fit any category I've ever heard of. Forget any expectation of mystery or detective as we know them. As you read through the series, there are some points at which the world isn't or hasn't been manageable and people must simply live through unhappy events. There is great acceptance of life as it unfolds and people as they are with some regret for the growing loss in cities of traditional Botswana values. What I love about the books is their gentle humor and the emerging of characters I truly like who want to be good and helpful people.

SCWillson

06-19-2009, 01:53 AM

I started a book yesterday titled Thunderstruck by Erik Larsen. It's a true story of the first murderer caught by wireless, in 1902. The book weaves two lines of narrative together; the story of Giacomo Marconi's early development of radio and a mild mannered London doctor who murders his wife so he can marry his mistress.

This would actually have been a pretty good Holmes story, and the book is chock-full of little details about Victorian London and early wireless technology. For example, we're used to thinking of radios running on batteries and being nice quiet little things unless we crank up the volume. The early radio transmitters used thousands of watts of electricity and when sending Morse code emitted such loud pops that the radio operators had to wear earplugs or put the transmitter in a soundproof room. :eek:

SCWillson

06-19-2009, 11:27 AM

This book by Larson is about Crippen? I had no idea. I read Crippen--A Novel of Murder by John Boyne and thought it was pretty good. I liked Devil and The White City, so maybe this new one will be interesting.

BTW Crippen is being exhumed and returned to his family in the USA. I'm less interested in that than what was really found in the cellar of the London house, as there is now some controversy about it, depending on who you believe.Yes, Crippen is the doctor. I didn't know he was being exhumed.

I enjoyed The Devil in the White City a couple of years ago; that's why I picked up Thunderstruck.

EDIT: Just finished Thunderstruck this morning. Interestingly, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was among the courtroom spectators at Crippen's trial.

Bachi

06-19-2009, 03:32 PM

I agree, Pat, they're 'stand-alone' books...

Copy that!
Wanda

Shaybo

06-19-2009, 09:36 PM

[QUOTE=LindaE;16942]Shaybo, I'm going to yield to temptation and pick up one of those Cussler books. Which one do think I should start with in order to give this author a fair shake?

Try reading his first book The Mediterianean Caper His main character is named Dirk Pitt. I hope you like it if not you can tell me.

SCWillson

06-20-2009, 12:12 AM

Today I started reading Darwin’s Sacred Cause: How a Hatred of Slavery Shaped Darwin’s Views on Human Evolution by Adrian Desmond & James Moore. This is a followup to the award-winning (and excellent!) bio of Darwin these same authors wrote back in the early 1990's and based on a large amount of new Darwin material (mostly correspondence) that's become available in the past decade. So far it's been an interesting read.

Charles Darwin has long been one of my heroes (and I've read at least 3 biographies of him), but I had no idea Darwin's extensive family was so deeply involved in the abolitionist movement.

I also started rereading A Letter of Mary.

Meags2387

06-20-2009, 04:22 AM

I found another mystery series to read! It was kinda random, but I'd been catching glipses of "Murder on Nob Hill," by Shirley Tallman every so often at my library and finally decided to pick it up and read it. I loved it! Her character is headstrong and willful and her reluctant partner is an irrascible (sp?) Scotsman who loses his temper with her quite easily. It makes for a very enjoyable read. The only downside that I can see is that there are only 3 books in the series so far. I would recommend it if you like the Victoria Thompson series. -Meags

SCWillson

06-20-2009, 09:57 PM

Steve, That sounds interesting. I was aware that the family was somewhat influential, but I was unaware of their abolitionist views. It makes sense, actually. I will be interested to hear how the Darwin's ideas on human biology and development effect their views on the plight of various groups of people, bearing in mind that they lived in the 19th century.Although I'm not deep into the book yet, it sounds as if Charles Darwin's upbringing itself played a significant part in shaping his evolutionary views as to the equality of man. Even his famous grandfather, Erasmus Darwin, was involved in the abolitionist movement. Almost the entire interconnected Darwin-Wedgewood* (there was a lot of intermarriage between the two families) clan was providing support to the concept of universal abolition, including significant funds.

* Of porcelain pottery fame

LindaE

06-20-2009, 11:01 PM

SCWillson

06-20-2009, 11:50 PM

Erasmus also had a theory on natural selection, as well, so the notion didn't entirely start with Charles, although I imagine it only really began to gel when he was on the Beagle voyage. It's been a long time since I read any of this sort of thing, so I'll stop now before I totally embarrass myself. :) Gould's punctuated equilibria article was required reading in my paleo anthro course. Good stuff, that! One of the more memorable talks I heard was by Gould, when he was in South Africa, long ago,. An appeal for the end of racial prejudice if ever there was one, I seem to recall.I plowed through Gould's 1200 page magnum opus The Structure of Evolutionary Theory a couple years ago. Took me about three weeks. The section he wrote in there on punctuated equilibrium has been published now as a separate book.

Erasmus Darwin actually had a theory of evolution (it was not a new idea); Charles came up with the mechanism of natural selection (which he called "descent with modification.") even though it took him almost two decades. I own a 100+ year old edition of The Origin of Species my dad gave me. He's into science too; although he's into physics and astronomy and I'm more into life sciences.

Gould was hands down my favorite science author; and I mourned his death too. He was only 60. It's neat you got to see him in person. He was very against racial bias. Have you read his book The Mismeasure of Man about how IQ tests were misused at the turn of the 20th century to discriminate against immigrants? Scientifically, of course.

Pat Floyd

06-21-2009, 01:14 AM

SC and Linda, I'm thoroughly enjoying these discussions. I've never read a thing by Stephen Jay Gould and must remedy that lack. It sounds as if his theory of punctuated equilibria has a distant relationship to Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions, that science moves in new directions through anomalies rather than by gradualism, to state it with great oversimplification.

However, you must know that the latest word on human evolution is found in Alexander McCall Smith's new addition to the No. 1 Ladies Detective series, Tea Time for the Traditionally Built. Mma Ramotswe is the head of the agency with an assistant, Maa Makutsi, who has very firm and unshakeable opinions. Maa Makutsi declares that everyone has become lazy and no one walks anywhere anymore. She says that she has heard of evolution, and what is going to happen is that people's legs are going to turn into wheels. Maa Ramotswe allows that this is unlikely to happen, to which Maa Makutsi replies repressively, "We shall see." Knowing that argument is useless, Maa Ramotswe thinks that with the pace of evolution, whatever happens, the two of them are very unlikely to see it.

SCWillson

06-21-2009, 01:45 AM

Meags2387

06-21-2009, 03:42 AM

I started Lindsay Davis' "Course of Honor". I am loving it! I admit that I was skeptical about being able to like it since it wasn't a Falco mystery, but I started it today and had such a hard time putting it down. So I admit it, I was entirely wrong in thinking that I wouldn't like it. And all the praise I have heard thus far on here about it is completely justified. -Meags

Jennifer

06-21-2009, 03:39 PM

I finished the "Ladies #1 Detective Agency" and had "The Tears of the Giraffe" ready to go. These are very good stories!
Jennifer

jtb1951

06-21-2009, 05:53 PM

All of the Stephen Jay Gould discussions have been most interesting; I followed his career and started reading his books after my wife met him during a visit he made to U.C. Berkeley while she was finishing her doctorate program and was very favorably impressed. As an evolutionary biochemist working under Alan Wilson, whose own contributions to evolutionary science were considerable, my wife found Gould's theories and perspective though-provoking and his intellect impressive. His books never disabused me of her impressions.

On a different note, for the fans of Kage Baker's Company series out there, her two new books, published by the wonderful Subterranean Press, look to provide some interesting new insights into the 19th Century roots of the predecessors to the Company itself. The Women of Nell Gwynne's is the story of London's most exclusive brothel, which is secretly the sister organization to the Gentlemen's Speculative Society (GSS), the above mentioned predecessor to the Company. The second novel, appearing later this year, is titled Not Less Than Gods, and tells the story of Edward Alton Bell-Fairfax (an individual with whom Company fans are familiar), his creation and recruitment by the GSS, and his training and first mission. The Company series is a favorite of mine, and these two books look to expand upon and more fully develop the formative days of what evolved into the Company. Kage Baker is one of the few authors whose books I will buy unseen. 'Nuff said!

John.

Bachi

06-21-2009, 09:18 PM

Just in case anyone is interested, the second hand books store near me has a 1st edition (1967) of the two volume set of the Annotated Sherlock Holmes by William S. Barring-Gould. It seems to be in good condition. If anyone wants more info send me a private message.

I recently finished "The Guns of Heaven" by Pete Hamill and "The Gutter and the Grave" by Ed McBain both from the Hard Case Series. Guns was the second Hamill I have read, the 1st being "News is a Verb..." of the two I enjoyed Guns more. The primary plot is about Ireland (IRA, UFI, SAS) but he manages to bring in black gun dealers and American religious zealots into the mix, what an hodge podge. Gutter & Grave was true to McBain's style and enjoyable.

I have also finished "The Shadowmancer" by G.P. Taylor, it was a fantasy and just ok.

LindaE

06-21-2009, 10:37 PM

John, That's really great that your wife got to meet Gould. From what I have seen of him, he was pretty cool-school. He put up one heck of a fight against that cancer.

The `19th century London stories sound interesting. I'm somewhat interested in the Late Victorian era. This is the first I've heard of this series.

SCWillson

06-21-2009, 11:03 PM

The 19th century London stories sound interesting. I'm somewhat interested in the Late Victorian era. This is the first I've heard of this series.Since the original Holmes stories virtually define Victorian fiction and even the Russell/Holmes stories treat Holmes as a Victorian gentleman, I would think most readers of these stories would have some interest in the period. It's long been a personal interest of mine, although I'm better read on the 17th Century. :)

Jennifer

06-22-2009, 01:20 AM

I plucked myself down in this middle of this discussion and thought John's wife got to meet Baring-Gould! How's that for having your head in the wrong place, wrong time period, wrong continent....
Jennifer

jtb1951

06-22-2009, 01:49 AM

Jennifer

06-22-2009, 12:15 PM

Just goes to show you, all my cultural references have had a paradigm shift in the past couple of years....
Jennifer

LindaE

06-22-2009, 04:39 PM

Just goes to show you, all my cultural references have had a paradigm shift in the past couple of years....
Jennifer

Nah, Jen, it's just the heat! :D

Meags2387

06-23-2009, 03:28 PM

I finished "The Course of Honor". I loved it! I am such a sucker for a good historical romance. I loved how Lindsay Davis wrote Caenis. She just manages to bring Rome and it's people to life. I'm now continuing on with the second on Shirley Tallman's series and this next one is going pretty well. My favorite character is Robert Campbell. I just love the way he is constantly getting at Sarah and grumbling. It's highly amusing. -Meags

tangential1

06-23-2009, 06:41 PM

Was the movie at all similar to the book?

You know, it was and it wasn't at the same time. They do follow the book pretty closely in the events, but they kind of messed with the characters and added in some conflict that wasn't there before. For example, one of Fanny's major traits in the book is her constancy of opinion and morals (I was thinking of another adjective, but now I can't remember it! Arg!); she's in love with Edmund from the start and doesn't waver from that, and she's got an excellent sense of others and isn't easily persuaded in her opinions. In the movie she's very uncertain about everything; there's actually a line where someone asks if her opinion of Mr. Crawford have changed while she's been away and she says, "several times." I'm sure it's meant to add a bit more drama, but it kind of detracts from her character. Oddly, though, I still liked the movie Fanny a bit better than the book Fanny. She's really such a pushover in the book that she drove me crazy; I really wanted to smack her several times. At least in the movie she's a bit more sarcastic (at least in private) about the treatment she receives from her aunt.

Anyhow, I'm babbling...I suppose that means it was a worthwhile read ;)

I plucked myself down in this middle of this discussion and thought John's wife got to meet Baring-Gould! How's that for having your head in the wrong place, wrong time period, wrong continent....
Jennifer

I had the same thought for a second! Totally confused, went back and read again to clarify!:rolleyes:

So I've apparently fallen into a fantasy reading craze. I blew through Graceling by Kristin Cashore in about a day...followed by a day of moping because I'd finished it too fast and couldn't stop thinking about the characters and thus couldn't start something else. Really an excellent read! I was put off by all the "romance" described in various reviews, but Liz here on the VBC convinced me it was action-packed enough to keep the romance from getting too mushy (is there anything worse than mushy teen romance, really??). So thank you to Liz!! Now I'm a goodly way into Outlander by Diana Gabaldon, which I'm seeming to blow through as well (almost 200 pages in 24 hours! While working even!).

SCWillson

06-23-2009, 07:10 PM

Now I'm a goodly way into Outlander by Diana Gabaldon, which I'm seeming to blow through as well (almost 200 pages in 24 hours! While working even!).I really enjoyed that book; I read it a couple years ago although I haven't read any of the sequels yet.

annie

06-23-2009, 07:55 PM

Can I put in a plug for one of my very favourite books of all time? The author describes it as a "circular" book because you can pick it up and read a bit in any order. This was especially useful when I had my babies.

At one level it is a description of academic Cambridge in the 1880s, written by a Darwin grand-daughter (Gwen Raverat, also a friend of Rupert Brooke). At another it is one of the most evocative and acutely observed books about childhood that I have ever read.

I was reminded of it because she quotes one of her uncles as saying "you've never met a Darwin who wasn't mostly Wedgwood" and describes the famous, high-achieving family in a loving and down-to-earth manner.

Oh, it's called Period Piece

LindaE

06-25-2009, 08:22 PM

Has anyone read this little book Swine Not? A Novel Pig Tale, by Jimmy Buffett? It's been a pleasant surprise. I'm a Parrot-head, so I've read all of his books, but this one is a bit different. It would work well for kids as well as adults. It's about Rumpy the pig, her twin humans, Barley and Maple, Syrup the cat, and Ellie the mom. Rumpy is trying to locate her long lost brother Lukie. Ellie is a chef and the whole family gets swept up and moved to a hotel in New York. It's a charming, and not terribly complicated, story.

Shaybo

06-25-2009, 10:15 PM

I'm reading Excavation by James Rollins

vicki

06-26-2009, 08:40 PM

Then I would have to be The Time-Traveler's Husband;)!

Hehehehe! I love TTW--that was such a good book.

Meags, I haven't read many romances outside of Georgette Heyer's stuff, but I probably ought to. My favorite book--Pride and Prejudice--could probably be considered a romance, as could the Outlander series, another fave of mine. And I really love the romance/relationship aspects of many books in other genres (like the Russells, for instance). I think the Romance genre sometimes gets a bum rap. But lord, those romance fans do buy books. They're a powerful market.

I haven't read any Jimmy Buffett books, but my kids might enjoy that one.

Sheri, I really loved His Majesty's Dragon. I listened to the audiobook, and the reader did an especially good job with Temeraire. He really caught the raw intelligence of the baby dragon. Did you know that geek god Peter Jackson (director of LotR, yeah baybee!) is directing the film version? *starry eyes*

Haven't read anything by James Rollins. Hmmm. *Dislikes author knowledge-gap*

My favorite reads of the summer so far (other than LANG of course) have been The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie by Alan Bradley and Storm Front by Jim Butcher (hope that series doesn't jump the shark--it has an Anita-Blake style to it that makes me fear shark-jumping).

Also have been reading lots of businessy books, but those aren't nearly as fun as fiction. :..(

tangential1

06-26-2009, 10:34 PM

So I finished the first Outlander book in 4 days. Four. Days. I have no idea what exactly was so engrossing, but I couldn't put it down. I was reading under my desk at work! I never do that!

I picked up the second one last night and will probably ditch out of the movies (roommates want to go see "The Hangover") in favor of some quality reading time (as if I haven't had enough of that this week;)). Thanks go to Vicki for this rec, I believe. She said quite some time ago that it's one of her favorite series.

jtb1951

06-26-2009, 10:59 PM

Hehehehe! I love TTW--that was such a good book.

Audrey's second novel, Her Fearful Symmetry, is scheduled for release in the fall, and will be set in London. When I last heard Audrey speak she talked about living in London for awhile and working (doing book research!) as a volunteer docent giving cemetery tours at Highgate Cemetery which will be a central location in the new novel. I'm looking forward to it!

John.

LindaE

06-27-2009, 12:01 AM

I'm reading Excavation by James Rollins

I picked up his The Last Oracle this week and started it last night.

Meags2387

06-27-2009, 12:50 AM

Hehehehe! I love TTW--that was such a good book.

Meags, I haven't read many romances outside of Georgette Heyer's stuff, but I probably ought to. My favorite book--Pride and Prejudice--could probably be considered a romance, as could the Outlander series, another fave of mine. And I really love the romance/relationship aspects of many books in other genres (like the Russells, for instance). I think the Romance genre sometimes gets a bum rap. But lord, those romance fans do buy books. They're a powerful market.

Outside of Jane Austen, I don't read much romance myself, I generally read just mystery that has a side of romance (like the Russells and Victoria Thompson's stuff). However, I find that I am an absolute sucker for a well written romance. And you're right, romance fans are a VERY powerful market. I can tell that just from the number of romance books that I see being checked back at the library I work at. Some days there will be half a cart that is filled up with nothing but romance books! -Meags

Pat Floyd

06-27-2009, 01:23 AM

Thanks to suggestions here, I've been reading Stephen Jay Gould whose writing I had somehow totally missed. The excellence of his writing and the breadth of his knowledge blow me away. I didn't start with the heart of his own field (I plan to read Wonderful Life next) but with books about areas I know:

Triumph and Tragedy in Mudville: a Lifelong Passion for Baseball is a collection of Gould's writing about baseball and baseball writing. I'm savoring it a little at a time.

I couldn't resist The Hedgehog, the Fox, and the Magister's Pox: Mending the Gap between Science and the Humanities because I love Isaiah Berlin's essay "The Hedgehog and the Fox," using the saying translated by Eramus as "The fox devises many strategies; the hedgehog knows one great and effective strategy" to analyze the work of Russian writers. (Berlin speaks of Plato as a hedgehog, Aristotle as a fox; Dante as a hedgehog, Shakespeare as a fox.) Gould calls Berlin "my personal intellectual hero, a wonderful man who befriended me when I was a shy, beginning, absolute nobody" (p.3). Poignantly, Gould did not live to proof this book.

Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life is closest to my own area of expertise. I'm going to begin a new post at this point because I would very much like others' opinion on some points.

Pat Floyd

06-27-2009, 02:26 AM

Stephen Jay Gould's Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life addresses the conflict often seen between science and religion (a conflict that has never been a part of my thinking). He sees the solution in the idea of non-overlapping magisteria, with a magisterium defined as a domain of teaching: the "magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what is the universe made of (fact) and why does it work this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value" (p. 6). As academic disciplines I have no problem with this division.

In life I have a problem with confining the question of the ultimate meaning of life to a non-overlapping domain. When Thomas Huxley's beloved three-year-old son died suddenly his friend, the pastor Charles Kingsley, wrote asking if he could not find comfort in the Christian idea of eternal life. Gould prints Huxley's eloquent and thoughtful reply. In it I believe he outlines what for him is the ultimate meaning of life: "Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly and wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads" (p. 40). He speaks of a deep sense of religion without theology, science as a resting place independent of authority and tradition, and love that gives a sense of the sanctity of human nature and a deep sense of responsibility (p. 41). In part he was finding ultimate meaning in science itself.

It seem to me that for most of us there are overarching principles that influence what kind of religion we espouse, what kind of science or other vocation we practice and how. Gould assigns ethics to religion, but ethics must also be present in science. Huxley's commitment to nature and fact is moving, but at this point in history it seems innocent: Who is financing the enterprise? What questions interest them? Neither science nor religion are free of politics.

I would be interested in others' opinions, especially you in the sciences, of the idea that our lives are influenced by overarching or transcendent beliefs or principles that encompass all we are as opposed to the need to see life divided in separate compartments.

Meags2387

06-27-2009, 02:50 PM

I had no intention of dissing romance readers at all Sheri! I merely meant to acknowledge that they are indeed a force to be reckoned with in the book market. I know a number of people that enjoy romance novels. -Meags

LindaE

06-27-2009, 04:04 PM

It seem to me that for most of us there are overarching principles that influence what kind of religion we espouse, what kind of science or other vocation we practice and how. Gould assigns ethics to religion, but ethics must also be present in science. Huxley's commitment to nature and fact is moving, but at this point in history it seems innocent: Who is financing the enterprise? What questions interest them? Neither science nor religion are free of politics.

I would be interested in others' opinions, especially you in the sciences, of the idea that our lives are influenced by overarching or transcendent beliefs or principles that encompass all we are as opposed to the need to see life divided in separate compartments.

I think Stephen would be among the first to acknowledge that ethics needs to be present in every discipline. Thomas Huxley was contemporaneous with Darwin, a somewhat simpler era to some degree, and he defended Darwin's and Wallace's ideas against some rather belligerent folks. I can't say with any certainty that there was as strong a need to study who was financing scientific endeavors then as it is now. I freely admit I could be wrong. It's very important to know who's financing them, now. The reason for that being that grant money is thin on the ground for anything that doesn't contribute to making money for the greedy buggers. The same goes for so-called religious endeavors. You're absolutely correct that neither is free of politics. As for the average person working in science, I think most of them really want to be able to do their work, in an age where knowledge for the sake of knowledge is not considered valuable by many. That's not to imply that they start out to be unethical, merely that sometimes the ones providing the grant money will shape the results of the research to fit their ends.

Years ago, in order to earn money for my schooling, I taught geology labs. There was a woman in the 102 lab, which dealt with fossils. One day she decided to question me about my beliefs. She actually asked me if I believed in God. None of her business and not relevant to the assignment she was supposed to be completing. My response was brief. All I said was "Of course." She asked me how I could believe in God and evolution at the same time. To me that's never been a problem. Maybe I'm simple-minded, maybe I'm ignorant, maybe I'm naive and contradictory, but to me God is spirit and nature is the material world. I told her that I didn't see any vast dichotomy. Evolution and the vast unfolding of the Universe is just God's creative process, and I saw no reasons to put limitations on God. So I don't know if this in any way answers your question, Pat, but I don't need to compartmentalize my life. However I don't know if a large number of scientists would agree with me. I wouldn't even pretend to speak for them. I do know that a fairly significant number of so-called scientists claim to believe in God. At any rate, more than I thought.

Sorry, if I didn't quite provide the answer. I know this wasn't really quite what you were asking. It's been a long time since I read any of these types of books.

LindaE

06-27-2009, 04:20 PM

Seems like there's romance in most books. A few times, I met a "romance" novelist named Patricia Potter. By coincidence, I kept running into her at Walden's bookstore. The first time, I walked by her table, she looked up at me and said "I don't suppose I could talk you into buying a book, could I?" I got a kick out of that, so I stopped and looked through her books. Well, she did talk me into buying one of them. :) The book was about Jekyll Island, and I enjoyed it. She told me that she tried hard to make her female characters strong, independent women. I've read several of her books, and I think she succeeds in doing that. These are usually mystery or adventure books. After that, when I ran into her, she would tell people that she "had to twist my arm to get me to buy one" of her books! :D

annie

06-27-2009, 05:35 PM

I think most romance heroines in contemporary fiction are quite independent & strong-minded. Some more than others, but I think it's a long while since docile women were the mainstay of romance. And of course, the great classic romance heroines are always strong-minded.
I don't think of this as a board that doesn't have time for romance reading - I found my way here via the Suz Brockmann board. I am not reading many romances at the moment, having returned to my original love - detective fiction - but like most here, I range far & wide. I've read most of the classics (voraciously, as a child) but don't have much time for a lot of modern "literary" novels that seem to be about unpleasant people (!)

Pat - it was lovely to see Charles Kinsley mentioned. I grew up on the Hereward the Wake stories, which he gathered into a novel. Hereward was popular with the Victorians, but has fallen out of fashion now - whilst his successor, Robin Hood, is endlessly re-invented. I did tell my children the stories, as my father told me, but I have often longed for the talent to put them down on paper for a new generation.

LindaE

06-27-2009, 10:08 PM

Sorry, Annie, I didn't meant to imply that romance heroines weren't strong and independent. That's just what the lady was telling me about her characters. That she took pains to make them that way.

Millie

06-28-2009, 01:51 AM

I've just picked up Cross Stitch, by Diana Gabaldon, on the strength of recommendations from lots of you people. It looks great, so when I finish the Falco I'm reading, I'll start it. I'm currently on a bit of a record - it's taken me nearly 3 weeks to finish a book. Back in the day I could easily get through a book or 2 per DAY! I think I need to embrace audiobooks.

annie

06-28-2009, 11:26 AM

Sorry, Annie, I didn't meant to imply that romance heroines weren't strong and independent. That's just what the lady was telling me about her characters. That she took pains to make them that way.

Didn't necessarily think you were implying that - I was just joining in the debate really.

LindaE

06-28-2009, 03:09 PM

Didn't necessarily think you were implying that - I was just joining in the debate really.

:D I know you weren't. I just wanted to clarify my own statements, which I thought could be misunderstood.

Millie

06-28-2009, 11:13 PM

So I finished the first Outlander book in 4 days. Four. Days.

I've just discovered that Cross Stitch, which I'll be starting soon, is also titled Outlander...hopefully I'll enjoy it as much as you did!

Pat Floyd

06-29-2009, 05:24 AM

I think Stephen would be among the first to acknowledge that ethics needs to be present in every discipline. Thomas Huxley was contemporaneous with Darwin, a somewhat simpler era to some degree, and he defended Darwin's and Wallace's ideas against some rather belligerent folks. I can't say with any certainty that there was as strong a need to study who was financing scientific endeavors then as it is now. . . . As for the average person working in science, I think most of them really want to be able to do their work, in an age where knowledge for the sake of knowledge is not considered valuable by many. That's not to imply that they start out to be unethical, merely that sometimes the ones providing the grant money will shape the results of the research to fit their ends.

Years ago, in order to earn money for my schooling, I taught geology labs. There was a woman in the 102 lab, which dealt with fossils. One day she decided to question me about my beliefs. She actually asked me if I believed in God. . . . My response was brief. All I said was "Of course." She asked me how I could believe in God and evolution at the same time. To me that's never been a problem. . . , but to me God is spirit and nature is the material world. I told her that I didn't see any vast dichotomy. Evolution and the vast unfolding of the Universe is just God's creative process, and I saw no reasons to put limitations on God. . . .

Linda, thank you for your very helpful reply. I too imagine--perhaps incorrectly--that in the time of Darwin, Wallace, and Huxley much research was financed by wealthy patrons or universities and not tied to commercial interests. Scientists I've known, mainly in universities, were committed to their work and to the integrity of their work, more so than many people in other fields, including religion.

In the light of those who attacked Darwin's ideas and people like the woman in your geology lab, I appreciate Stephen Gould's separating spheres that don't belong together. I don't see evolution as something to believe in, but rather as a theory that has been validated by a preponderance of evidence that supports it. Proof rather than belief would be what one would look for.

Opposition to the idea of evolution that I know about comes from those who interpret the Bible literally, a practice that IMO does violence to the Bible and to clear thinking. The Bible has some wonderful poetic descriptions of creation (Genesis 1 and Psalms 8, 19, 36, 104 to mention a few) and in Genesis 2, creation described in the form of a folk tale. These descriptions differ from one another with some details in conflict; however, they all proclaim God as Creator and express gratitude, wonder, and awe. To try to turn this treasure into a scientific description of how creation took place is IMO a serious mistake.

We are left with difference of opinion about whether there is a God who creates or whether the universe came into being by some other means, Here is where I think belief enters in. This is certainly a topic that could be discussed endlessly and that for me is fascinating.

AmyLizzie

06-29-2009, 08:35 AM

Stephen Jay Gould's [I]In life I have a problem with confining the question of the ultimate meaning of life to a non-overlapping domain. When Thomas Huxley's beloved three-year-old son died suddenly his friend, the pastor Charles Kingsley, wrote asking if he could not find comfort in the Christian idea of eternal life. Gould prints Huxley's eloquent and thoughtful reply. In it I believe he outlines what for him is the ultimate meaning of life: "Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly and wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads" (p. 40).

Pat, I think your thoughts are very interesting and well-informed. While I do not wish to offend anyone, I have to admit that I am not a whole-hearted believer in God and I do not go to church or worship in any way. That’s not to say I don’t respect people who do. That’s up to them. Having said that, I can’t say with all honesty that I’m a complete atheist either. There are things that have happened in my life, which I wont go into here, that have caused me to pause and contemplate a higher being but nothing so significant that it has made me want to pursue religion further.

I am more of a believer in science as it is tangible, real, it explains things to me that religion cannot. But I see no reason to ‘compartmentalize’ one’s life, if you are a scientist, to me there is no reason why you cannot also believe in God and follow a religion. Faith is about more than belief to me, it is about holding onto things that are important to you, be that God, science, morals whatever. Faith is having the strength to believe in the face of adversity. “Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly and wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads" This quote I think sums me up, I am prepared to listen and to learn and if something should happen that should cause me to think differently, so be it. Religion and science are, I think, more similar than some people would care to admit. Both require intelligence and a sympathy with the human condition to be carried out effectively and with purpose, both require an unshakable determination to pursue what you believe to be right and both require a strong sense of belief.

One can get meaning from all things and to find the true meaning of life one should not shut off avenues of knowledge – any knowledge – irrelevant of where this knowledge originates from. A bit of a rant I suppose and I doubt I’ve helped in any way! But just wanted to add my thoughts to an interesting discussion… :)

Pat Floyd

06-29-2009, 04:02 PM

Faith is about more than belief to me, it is about holding onto things that are important to you, be that God, science, morals whatever. Faith is having the strength to believe in the face of adversity. “Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly and wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads" This quote I think sums me up, I am prepared to listen and to learn and if something should happen that should cause me to think differently, so be it. Religion and science are, I think, more similar than some people would care to admit. Both require intelligence and a sympathy with the human condition to be carried out effectively and with purpose, both require an unshakable determination to pursue what you believe to be right and both require a strong sense of belief.

One can get meaning from all things and to find the true meaning of life one should not shut off avenues of knowledge – any knowledge – irrelevant of where this knowledge originates from. A bit of a rant I suppose and I doubt I’ve helped in any way! But just wanted to add my thoughts to an interesting discussion… :)

AmyLizzie, what a wonderful statement! For me faith is not primarily about belief but about relationships: with God who is present to me as the spirit in whom "we live and move and have our being," with other people, and with this world in which we live. Back in 1947 in freshman orientation at my church-related college the president emeritus said, "Don't be afraid to learn everything you can. All truth is from God. There is no division in the household of truth." I certainly agree that true meaning in life comes from being open to all avenues of knowledge and from caring deeply about others and about this earth.

LindaE

06-29-2009, 07:50 PM

Pat, Thank you for your excellent response to my ramble. The Bible is a treasure, of course, but it contradicts itself in a number of places. It's history is more complex than most of us realize. I feel that the greatest service Christianity can do itself is to dedicate itself to teaching the real history of the Bible, as understood by Bible scholars, and to avoid the literal interpretation. I don't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater, but studying the real history would open the door onto the "clear-thinking" that you mention here. Neither science nor religion can fully define God, though I think that science and spirituality can give us some ideas about God, or how the universe came to be and what it actually means. As for me, I don't let the so-called breach between science and spirituality bother me much. There is spirit and there is matter. I wonder if you can have one without the other. My guess is that we know a lot more about matter than we do spirit, so there's still a lot for all of us to learn. :) I have my faith and I have the things and creatures of this world, and I don't let my heart be troubled by what some might see as contradictions.

tangential1

06-29-2009, 08:17 PM

Audrey's second novel, Her Fearful Symmetry, is scheduled for release in the fall, and will be set in London. When I last heard Audrey speak she talked about living in London for awhile and working (doing book research!) as a volunteer docent giving cemetery tours at Highgate Cemetery which will be a central location in the new novel. I'm looking forward to it!

John.

Squeee!! I've been looking forward to this book too! I loved TTW so much. One of the disappointing thing about "discovering" a good author toward the beginning of their career is the waiting, i suppose:rolleyes:

Oh.... but on boards like this the refusal to acknowledge fluff as litterature... well paying litterature... is dissing in it's own way.

I try not to diss romance...but sometimes I can't help it. Not that I'm ever judging the books by their own merits, which is also very bad of me...but the cover art is always so horrible on romance! Totally scares me off before I get close enough to find out what they're about. To be fair, I generally act the same way toward sci-fi/fantasy. Publishers really need to be nicer to genre fiction covers.

Anywho, totally agree that the "literature" designation is a load of waffle. It's an entirely subjective, meaningless designation that changes constantly (look at "Outlander" for example. Apparently originally designated "romance" and then moved to "literature" as the series grew). Based on my last trip to the bookstore, I've decided that "literature" must mean "books we cannot categorize easily into one particular genre".

I've just discovered that Cross Stitch, which I'll be starting soon, is also titled Outlander...hopefully I'll enjoy it as much as you did!

Happy reading!! I'm curious to hear what others think of it too:)

SCWillson

06-30-2009, 12:15 AM

This morning I started The Heretic in Darwin’s Court: The Life of Alfred Russel Wallace by Ross Slotten. Wallace (with Charles Darwin) was the co-discoverer of natural selection. Very good so far.

I'm also rereading Locked Rooms and should be able to reread The Language of Bees in time for the July discussion.

jtb1951

06-30-2009, 02:16 AM

Neither science nor religion can fully define God, though I think that science and spirituality can give us some ideas about God, or how the universe came to be and what it actually means. As for me, I don't let the so-called breach between science and spirituality bother me much. There is spirit and there is matter. I wonder if you can have one without the other. My guess is that we know a lot more about matter than we do spirit, so there's still a lot for all of us to learn. I have my faith and I have the things and creatures of this world, and I don't let my heart be troubled by what some might see as contradictions.

I don't see evolution as something to believe in, but rather as a theory that has been validated by a preponderance of evidence that supports it. Proof rather than belief would be what one would look for.

Neither science nor religion are free of politics.

To me that's never been a problem. Maybe I'm simple-minded, maybe I'm ignorant, maybe I'm naive and contradictory, but to me God is spirit and nature is the material world. I told her that I didn't see any vast dichotomy. Evolution and the vast unfolding of the Universe is just God's creative process, and I saw no reasons to put limitations on God.

I never fail to be impressed by the insightful and thought-provoking nature of some of our discussions, especially considering the genesis of said discussions from the subject matter of books which we typically read for pleasure (including the pleasure of learning!) I am a professional scientist and a fervent Roman Catholic and I have been challenged occasionally by folks who cannot comprehend that such a biological combination can exist! Some colleagues simply dismiss as fantasy my assertion that both my faith and nature sustain my spirituality, and that my spiritual journey and the supernatural gift of my intellect feed my physical curiosity and my understanding of my place and time in our human reality. As far as I am concerned, our spiritual essence (our soul, to us Catholics) is the intersection of the separate sets containing our Creator and our human nature. From my perspective (and I really am not trying to proselytize!) scientists who reject a higher power, and faith-filled folks who spurn science as just a collection of theories, are shorting themselves unnecessarily. Scientific theories are not meant to test faith, and sacred scriptures aren't a compendium of the laws of nature, but each are treasured by us for the glimpses they provide into who we really are. Thank you all for your valuable insights into the human condition!

John.

Meags2387

06-30-2009, 03:03 AM

I am currently entrenched in the third and (for now) final book of Shirley Tallman's Sarah Woolson mystery series. I am enjoying it immensely. I think I like Robert best. He's always losing his temper with Sarah, which is funny to imagine as Ms. Tallman dscribes him as a Scotsman whose rolling r's come to the fore when he loses his temper. :) Gotta love the accents. -Meags

AmyLizzie

06-30-2009, 07:19 AM

As far as I am concerned, our spiritual essence (our soul, to us Catholics) is the intersection of the separate sets containing our Creator and our human nature. From my perspective (and I really am not trying to proselytize!) scientists who reject a higher power, and faith-filled folks who spurn science as just a collection of theories, are shorting themselves unnecessarily. Scientific theories are not meant to test faith, and sacred scriptures aren't a compendium of the laws of nature, but each are treasured by us for the glimpses they provide into who we really are. Thank you all for your valuable insights into the human condition!

John.

John I completly agree, I suppose I was brought up in an atmosphere where religion was never very present. Although my Godfather is a vicar in the Church of England! But I agree that no matter what our beliefs we should not shut out knowledge. I admire you immensly for sticking to your beliefs in the face of criticism - I'm ashamed to say I don't think I could be that strong!

I have known some people whose belief in God overshadows everything else and to me that sort of religion can be dangerous, shutting out all other avenues of possibility cannot be a logical way to live your life. Basically what I'm trying to say is that John, I think you have the perfect balance! :)

LindaE

06-30-2009, 01:33 PM

John, Your excellent post expresses how I feel about these issues. (not just because I agree with it) Some deliberately want to wear blinkers and refuse to see any point of fusion between science and faith, or between nature and spirit. I see it as short-sighted, and sometimes it's like they're just following the herd. Science is about exploring possibilities and testing ideas and insights gained from these explorations. It's often fashionable to rigidly dismiss the existence of spirit and the energy that propels it. The quote by Sagan regarding "extraordinary claims" requiring "extraordinary proof" is overused and not useful if scientists tend to use it as an excuse to avoid researching the subject. Frankly, no matter where you're sitting, if you don't study the subject in question, you can't make useful comments on it. It seems that denying the existence of a spiritual content to existence has become a religion in its own right, among professional skeptics, and it extends to many who pursue "Philosophy" as well. It's also true of those who spurn science because they fear it will, in some way, challenge their faith. That's reactionary and unproductive, but people are taught to be fearful of science. However I have to say that some scientists do nothing to bridge the gap. It's short-sighted to me.

Hope this makes sense. My coffee is slow in kicking in this morning.

Pat Floyd

06-30-2009, 04:18 PM

I am a professional scientist and a fervent Roman Catholic and I have been challenged occasionally by folks who cannot comprehend that such a biological combination can exist! Some colleagues simply dismiss as fantasy my assertion that both my faith and nature sustain my spirituality, and that my spiritual journey and the supernatural gift of my intellect feed my physical curiosity and my understanding of my place and time in our human reality. . . . Scientific theories are not meant to test faith, and sacred scriptures aren't a compendium of the laws of nature, but each are treasured by us for the glimpses they provide into who we really are.

John, you state so very well a point of view that resonates with me. Science opens up the incredible wonders of the universe, and a spiritual awareness enlarges our appreciation and our understanding of our place in it all. I especially appreciate your contribution to this discussion because although the Roman Catholic Church opposed some scientific advances in the past (i.e. Galileo), its scholars have made tremendous contributions to the advancement of knowledge. The Church has also accepted the concept of evolution. Catholics have never substituted worship of the Bible for worship of God nor have they been bound by a rationalism that is unable to embrace both the material and the spiritual. My spiritual forebear, John Wesley, advised that faith needs to be informed by scripture, tradition, reason, and experience. I've found that a good balance.

LindaE

06-30-2009, 09:29 PM

LindaE

06-30-2009, 09:30 PM

AmyLizzie wrote: "I have known some people whose belief in God overshadows everything else and to me that sort of religion can be dangerous, shutting out all other avenues of possibility cannot be a logical way to live your life. Basically what I'm trying to say is that John, I think you have the perfect balance!

One can get meaning from all things and to find the true meaning of life one should not shut off avenues of knowledge – any knowledge – irrelevant of where this knowledge originates from. A bit of a rant I suppose and I doubt I’ve helped in any way! But just wanted to add my thoughts to an interesting discussion…"

I've known such people also, AmyLizzie. I had one in my family. I completely agree with you. Shutting off other avenues can lead to lack of balance in your life. One of the reasons I try to keep these avenues open is that I've seen up close and personal the dangers of not doing that. Just the gaining of knowledge can so deeply enrich a person's life. If a person lives in fear that their faith is going to be challenged then maybe they aren't growing as a person. If a person can't or won't face the challenges to their faith or beliefs, then what's the point? So I don't think you're on a rant; it's common sense and well said.

KarenB

06-30-2009, 10:11 PM

I haven't posted to this discussion because I have a difficult time articulating my thoughts on such a profound subject. But I have very much been enjoying the discussion and the viewpoints professed. Thank you all for your honest and thoughtful posting.

Shaybo

06-30-2009, 10:12 PM

I picked up his The Last Oracle this week and started it last night.It's a good book I think you might like it. Now I'm reading Ice Hunt. Also by James Rollins

LindaE

06-30-2009, 10:31 PM

Shaybo, I'm really liking the book. I bought Sandstorm (was it Sandstorm?) a year or so ago and didn't get into it quickly. This one reeled me in pretty quickly. I'll probably dig out Sandstorm again and give it another try. I haven't seen Ice Hunt yet. Also want to read the Mediterranean Dirk Pitt one you recommended when I can back to the store.

Karen, Those types of discussions tend to make me a little nervous because, on the wrong website, they can get out of hand. That happens a lot on another forum I'm on. It's made me gun-shy, and I tend to avoid them. I think that it might not happen so easily here. At least it hasn't happened so far. I agree that it's hard to articulate one's thought on the subject.

LindaE

06-30-2009, 10:32 PM

Shaybo

06-30-2009, 11:14 PM

Linda I'm glad that you are enjoying James Rollins he's a good writer and I hope that you'll like Clive Cussler.

SCWillson

06-30-2009, 11:35 PM

I've been thinking about this today, while I was out. When a subject of inquiry is walled off, inquiry ceases to happen. In the past, it was the Church which resisted certain scientific inquiries, if these were presumed to contradict Church teachings or outlooks. The shoe is now on the other foot. Science, today, or at least some scientists, resist inquiry into spiritual matters or subjects for which they presume no substantiation is possible. Science is walling off inquiries into the nature of spiritual matters. After centuries of wrestling with science and opposing it, the Catholic church has reached a more advanced outlook on science than science often has on spiritual matters.My thought has always been that any God detectable with a tricorder (or whatever real or as yet unimagined scientific instrument) is unworthy of the title. A true God would have to be utterly beyond our feeble intellects or instrumentation.

I'm an agnostic who suspects the atheists are correct, but I still think my Catholic upbringing gave me a solid moral foundation for which I will remain ever grateful. At this point in my life I find fanatic antitheists (as I call them) like Richard Dawkins almost as tiresome as I do Biblical literalists who deny the evidence of evolution.

Shaybo

06-30-2009, 11:52 PM

LindaE

07-01-2009, 12:48 AM

My thought has always been that any God detectable with a tricorder (or whatever real or as yet unimagined scientific instrument) is unworthy of the title. A true God would have to be utterly beyond our feeble intellects or instrumentation.

I'm an agnostic who suspects the atheists are correct, but I still think my Catholic upbringing gave me a solid moral foundation for which I will remain ever grateful. At this point in my life I find fanatic antitheists (as I call them) like Richard Dawkins almost as tiresome as I do Biblical literalists who deny the evidence of evolution.

I tend to agree about Dawkins. His, to borrow your term, anti-theism, seems nearly as fanatical as religious fanaticism. You'd be in a better position to know, Steve, since you read his books. Early on, I got a sense of "thou dost protest too much" from him. I didn't understand why it was so important to him to be so outspoken about this. I stopped reading his stuff. I know that he's very popular though and don't deny he's a brilliant fellow.

No, I don't think God is detectable with a tricorder. :) I didn't mean to give that impression. I don't suggest we go out and try to prove the existence of God. When I refer to spirit, I'm not thinking of a white-haired and bearded old gent sitting in the sky, but more of a spiritual fabric that is part of the Universe and which we have yet to study much.

SCWillson

07-01-2009, 01:45 AM

I tend to agree about Dawkins. His, to borrow your term, anti-theism, seems nearly as fanatical as religious fanaticism. You'd be in a better position to know, Steve, since you read his books. Early on, I got a sense of "thou dost protest too much" from him. I didn't understand why it was so important to him to be so outspoken about this. I stopped reading his stuff. I know that he's very popular though and don't deny he's a brilliant fellow.Dawkins' earlier books on evolution were pretty good; his later ones had an annoying tendency to wander off into anti-creationist screeds. Even my father and my late mother's partner, both self-identified atheists, found his arguments in The God Delusion to be unconvincing and poorly reasoned. My dad felt Dawkins was mostly preaching to the unconverted. ;)

No, I don't think God is detectable with a tricorder. :) I didn't mean to give that impression. I don't suggest we go out and try to prove the existence of God. When I refer to spirit, I'm not thinking of a white-haired and bearded old gent sitting in the sky, but more of a spiritual fabric that is part of the Universe and which we have yet to study much.I didn't think you were; I was just inserting my 2¢ worth on an interesting topic. I'm sure you know how hard it is to find intelligent and civil discourse on religion and faith; it tends to raise hackles from many people on both sides of the issue.

Like Shaybo's husband, I try to know a bit about religion even if I don't practice it. It always bemuses me how many people reject Christianity without even understanding what it is they're actually rejecting; yet many of those same people will accept Eastern religions or spiritualism or Marxism or feng shui or the like without question. Lure of the exotic, I suppose.

Pat Floyd

07-01-2009, 02:43 AM

No, I don't think God is detectable with a tricorder. :) When I refer to spirit, I'm not thinking of a white-haired and bearded old gent sitting in the sky, but more of a spiritual fabric that is part of the Universe and which we have yet to study much.

Back in 1961, J. B. Phillips wrote a book titled Your God Is Too Small that makes the point that any formulations that think they can define, contain, limit God, or threaten God can't be about the God of all the universe.

My concepts and experience of God change over time. Where I am now partakes of the concept of panentheism which holds that God is the animating force of the universe who interpenetrates every part of it and extends beyond it. Pantheism holds that God is synonymous with the material universe, panentheism that we exist in God who is far more than the universe.

For my understanding of the nature of God and God's intention for human beings, I turn to Jesus Christ who I see as showing us a God of love and forgiveness who longs to be in relationship with us and for all creatures to have fullness of life. I also believe we can learn a great deal and be enriched by those who have found other pathways to God and by those who are agnostic or atheists.

annie

07-01-2009, 06:59 AM

I've never been a closet romance reader. I'll read them in public just as easily as a Non-fic. But there was some posts in romance land this week about it. Dh teased me once... he decided afterwards that maybe nattering about my reading material wasn't a good idea. :D

DH has only commented once: When a kind book-pal on the Suz BB sent me "Bimbos of the Death Sun" complete with lurid cover: actually a detective story / SciFi / gentle parody of SciFi conventions by Sharyn McCrum. He said "do you have to leave that lying about where people coming in to the house can see it?" LOL!

AmyLizzie

07-01-2009, 07:18 AM

Mills & Boon is where you want to go for romance! LOL - some of the titles for those amuse me...

I like a good bit of romance :) Gone with the Wind for example I think you could class as romance?? But I'm all for a bit of fluff - especially when I'm on holiday on a beach :D

SCWillson

07-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Back in 1961, J. B. Phillips wrote a book titled Your God Is Too Small that makes the point that any formulations that think they can define, contain, limit God, or threaten God can't be about the God of all the universe.I call this the "God in a box syndrome." When people say things like "God couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't do that" (Like "There's no such thing as evolution.") aren't they in their mind making Him small and understandable; and hence denying His power? Isn't that an argument from incredulity?

Wouldn't an omniscient and omnipotent Deity that created our entire universe with "Let there be Light" Big Bang 14.5 billion years ago to a certain set of laws of nature He selected; and then kicked back to wait knowing (omniscient, remember?) that in 14.49998 billion years sentient beings he can infuse with souls and a knowledge of good and evil will come along by dint of the rules of evolution He created, be far more worthy of worship than one who supposedly built it piece by piece 6000 years ago and supposedly left fossils to test our faith?

AmyLizzie

07-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Very true - the covers are shocking! You may as well put them on the top shelf! I know you should never judge a book by its cover but....even I have my limits!

AmyLizzie

07-01-2009, 12:43 PM

On Chapter 95 of 'The Count of Monte Cristo' it's taking me ages! It's soooo long and soooo complicated that I have to keep going back and reminding myself who's who and how they fit in! My brain hurts....

annie

07-01-2009, 04:43 PM

I too have followed the thoughtful and respectful discussion about religion and creation, with fascination. Interspersed are comments about romance novels and lurid covers. Wonderful!

jtb1951

07-01-2009, 05:37 PM

It won the Nobel prize. Or was it the Pulitzer?

The 1937 Pulitzer Prize for a novel. The Nobel Prize for Literature has been awarded to a fairly select group of American authors over the years, and not many recently: Toni Morrison (1993), Czeslaw Milosz (1980), Isaac Bashevis Singer (1978), Saul Bellow (1976), John Steinbeck (1962), Ernest Hemingway (1954), William Faulkner (1949), Pearl S. Buck (1938), Eugene O'Neill (1936), and Sinclair Lewis (1930).

John.

Shaybo

07-01-2009, 08:27 PM

That's interesting, Shaybo, about your husband's interest in the holy books and in the various religions. I think a lot of religious people are often not so well-informed about these.

I was wondering if you had read any of A.J. Hartley's books yet. They are very suspenseful and remind me a bit of James Rollins. I recommend The Atreus Mask to start with.No I haven't, but thanks for the recommendation.

tangential1

07-01-2009, 11:22 PM

DH has only commented once: When a kind book-pal on the Suz BB sent me "Bimbos of the Death Sun" complete with lurid cover: actually a detective story / SciFi / gentle parody of SciFi conventions by Sharyn McCrum. He said "do you have to leave that lying about where people coming in to the house can see it?" LOL!

Oh! Was that any good?? The title alone got me really curious so that one and Zombies of the Gene Pool are now on my TBR list. Which reminds me...I should look them up at the library.

Elizabeth Chase

07-02-2009, 06:14 AM

Sheri, I couldn't get the top one to load this morning. It worked for me when I first read this. Anyone who has read Gone With The Wind ought to have second thoughts about making disparaging remarks about romances. It won the Nobel prize. Or was it the Pulitzer? I tend to also think of that book as an anti-war novel. The movie doesn't do it justice. These days, when so many people aren't reading, I'm just glad anyone is reading anything, other than porn and other tripe. A relative passes a romance novel to me, from time to time, and I read them.

GWTW won the Pulitzer in 1937. :)

Meags2387

07-02-2009, 03:41 PM

Are these historical mysteries? Why do I get the feeling they're Victorian?

Yes, they are historical mysteries and yes, they are very Victorian. When I read mystery books, around three-fourths (probably more) of them end up being set in the Victorian era. For some reason it seems to inspire mystery writers and spark my interest. I am also a fan of historical mysteries as I find it hard to get into modern mysteries. I find that the ones I pick up are either 1) more graphic than I like or 2) a book where shallow women are trying to get the guy while at the same time trying to solve a mystery, many times a culinary mystery. Now, I don't say that all modern mysteries are like this, just the ones I happen to pick up. And some people like those sorts of mysteries, just not me. However, I think that Donna Leon may be able to drive me into the 21st century with her mystery books.
In the mean time I am reading the latest Victoria Thompson book. I'm a little bit disappointed, as there's not as much interplay between Sarah and Malloy. I'm also getting through another Sherlock Holmes story collection. This one is all story of Holmes in America. It's okay so far. I'm surprised that two authors already have had Holmes in America in order to take care of the discrepancies in the "Study in Scarlet" case. Another one has Holmes in America acting, which isn't an unlikely scenario according to William Sabine Baring-Gould. However, the story was just that, a story, not a mystery. There was no suspense, no puzzlement over the resolution of the story! So I guess I'm ultimately kinda disappointed with that one as well...hmmm, this is a disturbing pattern for me. -Meags

annie

07-02-2009, 04:33 PM

Oh! Was that any good?? The title alone got me really curious so that one and Zombies of the Gene Pool are now on my TBR list. Which reminds me...I should look them up at the library.

Well I liked them - that doesn't mean they are "good" LOL!

They were written before the internet began to play such a large part in the world of SciFi fen (the plural of "fan" in this context, according to SM) so that dates them.
They're Agatha Christie meets Galaxy Quest; they're the sort of parody I love - not vicious, but a sort of gentle, amused homage to the world of trekkies, hovians & others.

Millie

07-02-2009, 09:30 PM

This has been a fascinating few days of discussions. Like someone else (Tangential? sorry, it's a few pages ago and I read it yesterday), I have trouble articulating my views on the religion/science debate, but suffice it to say that I pretty much agree with everything that's been written here. Thank you all for a thought-provoking and respectful discussion.

I was brought up Anglican, and my dh and kids are Catholic. My family is high church (incense etc) so in my mind there's not a lot of difference, apart, of course, from the major one of transubstantiation. But we certainly got the better hymns! I remember in primary school (grade school) we used to have Chapel every day, and one of our favourite hymns was Onward Christian Soldiers. We would bump up and down in time to the music and generally have a lovely time, yelling along at the tops of our high-pitched little voices. I have to admit, though, I never thought much about the words...it was quite confronting to read Russell's view of that hymn. I can't remember which book it was off the top of my head, perhaps LETT?

Romance...love it! From Mills and Boonies on the beach (I prefer the corny old Dutch doctor/ English nurse ones), to Rosamund Pilcher, Katie Fforde, etc. Sheri, you're not alone!

AmyLizzie

07-02-2009, 10:27 PM

Random comment but I am soooo annoyed! I sold a Soprano Sax on ebay and it sold, sent it off all fine now the man who brought it is complaining that it doesn't work! It worked fine when I posted it - now he's saying I should either pay for the repairs or refund him! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it was fine - I played it and it was fine,it was cheap so it's not the best sax in the world, granted but it did work...v.v.v.annoyed....

Meags2387

07-03-2009, 01:25 AM

I was reading Fremont Jones, which I think is Edwardian or LV, but I gave up on them because I got one that seemed sort of silly. I plan to get back into the Victoria Thompson ones, having read the first one. I have 2 of the Will Thomas ones to finish. Also I read a number of the Irene Adler ones by Douglas. I have sort of been dragging my feet on the last couple of those.

The only historical mysteries that I haven't found much in is for the Regency Era. Most of the ones that I've seen have either set up Jane Austen as a detective or Darcy and Elizabeth. Though if someone has found one that they thought worthwhile, please let me know. The Will Thomas mysteries are very good. I love them. Victoria Thompsons were all extremely good, though as I said earlier, I'm rather disappointed with her most recent one. I've never read the Irene Adler ones, mostly because I was never that interested in Irene Adler. A good Victorian suspense novel that I came across a bit ago called "Kept" was very good. It a stand alone, but you are wondering what's going on the entire time, trying to put together all the pieces. It was a fascinating book. -Meags

Pat Floyd

07-03-2009, 04:42 AM

Victorian mysteries I've really enjoyed are 12 by Bill and Susan Wittig Albert writing as Robin Paige. I think maybe 12 is all they plan to do. I'm also enjoying the Charles Todd mysteries suggested by Alice. They are set in 1919-20 and carry pain from the aftermath of WWI, but they are quite well Done.

AmyLizzie

07-03-2009, 08:58 AM

Chapter 100 of The Count of Monte Cristo! Whoo hoo :)

Shaybo

07-04-2009, 07:27 PM

I'm reading Amaonia by James Rollins.

SCWillson

07-05-2009, 07:17 PM

I started on LRK's A Darker Place this afternoon.

Shaybo

07-05-2009, 10:47 PM

I started on LRK's A Darker Place this afternoon.I read it and I found that it was GREAT:o

SCWillson

07-05-2009, 11:15 PM

I read it and I found that it was GREAT:oI'm only 66 pages into it. Pretty good so far.

After that I've got Keeping Watch and Folly. :)

tangential1

07-06-2009, 06:52 PM

So, I know I mentioned liking Diana Gabaldon's Outlander, but I think I forgot to mention that the sequels have usurped the top position in my TBR list for the last few weeks. I ran out and bought the second book before finishing the first so I could continue on, and did that again on Friday for the third...I'm just too curious to see what's going to happen!

I think it's the novelty of finding a new series that's pretty good that already has a bunch of books in it. Or maybe its just the season. Summer reading. I seem to remember being in something of a reading glut last summer too, when I realized how enjoyable the Stephanie Plum books were.:p

It's all going to end in depression, I fear, though. From everything I've heard, not many people liked the rest of the Outlander series nearly as much as the first three (it's even referred to as a trilogy despite the subsequent three books). So I'll most likely be back to my comfort reads soon. Ah well, the novelty is nice while it lasts ;)

Millie

07-06-2009, 09:18 PM

So, I know I mentioned liking Diana Gabaldon's Outlander, I'm just too curious to see what's going to happen!

I think it's the novelty of finding a new series that's pretty good that already has a bunch of books in it.

It's all going to end in depression, I fear, though. From everything I've heard, not many people liked the rest of the Outlander series nearly as much as the first three (it's even referred to as a trilogy despite the subsequent three books). So I'll most likely be back to my comfort reads soon. Ah well, the novelty is nice while it lasts ;)

Me too! I'm loving Cross Stitch (Outlander), and can't wait to read the next one.

Shaybo

07-06-2009, 10:08 PM

I'm only 66 pages into it. Pretty good so far.

After that I've got Keeping Watch and Folly. :)I've read those two already and I enjoyed them both.

Pat Floyd

07-08-2009, 02:08 PM

LaideeMarjorie

07-08-2009, 02:18 PM

Thanks to Meags' recommendation, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed Victoria Thompson's Murder on Astor Place and want to continue with the series. In the only other Victoria Thompson I've read, the villain was obvious to the reader long before the protagonists discovered him. Here I suspected the real villain very early, but not the murderer. I also like the developing relationship between Sarah and Molloy.

Pat,

How funny! I am now reading "Murder on Astor Place" as well. I am only about 100 pages into it, but I am especially enjoying all of the New York City locations that I know and love (albeit 100 years later than in the book). And I have an idea who did it, but I won't know for sure until I get to the end, of course!

I also had just finished my very first Val McDermid book, "Dead Beat" which I liked well enough to plan on reading some of her other books.

I have been felled by the flu for the past 2 weeks so I got in more reading time than usual. It's the only upside to being home in bed!

--Marjorie

Pat Floyd

07-08-2009, 03:20 PM

Marjorie, I'm so sorry you've had the flu, but isn't reading a great solace at such a time!

LaideeMarjorie

07-08-2009, 03:21 PM

Marjorie, I'm so sorry you've had the flu, but isn't reading a great solace at such a time!

Thanks, Pat. Reading and gallons of V8 juice got me through it!

--Marjorie

aibrean

07-08-2009, 06:55 PM

Hi guys!

I haven't posted for ages, but thought I'd pop in and say hello, and let you know that I haven't forgotten you all.

So... at the moment I'm reading:

Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafon, which is fantastic. It was highly recommended to me by a Spanish student, so when I saw it in the bookshop, I bought it. The next day, my student arrived in with a copy as a leaving gift! I'm going to see if I can change it for Zafon's new book.

Sting of Justice by Cora Harrison - mediaeval Irish mystery, 3rd in a series and they're all very good.

Vienna Blood by Frank Tallis - set in Vienna at the start of the 20th C, and second in the series. Also excellent.

On History, Age of Extremes and Age of Revolutions by Eric Hobsbawm.

Unfortunately, the reading is going very, very slowly, as (like last year, when I signed up - I can't believe it's that long) I'm driving an 80 mile round trip to work, till almost the end of August, and so my reading time is severely reduced.:(

To catch up, I read the last ten pages or so of this thread, and here are my (somewhat random) comments.
This is another vote for Bimbos of the Death Sun and Zombies of the Gene Pool, and also for Sharyn McCrumb's "Nora Bonesteel" series, which is fantastic.

I'm also a huge fan of the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency series, and generally like Alexander McCall Smith's other books (at least those I've read). I really enjoyed the pilot for the BBC TV series of No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency, which was directed by Anthony Minghella, although I only saw one other episode.

Having read earlier posts, I've come to the conclusion that the only thing lacking to make VBC perfect is a way to create a (cross-referenced) index of every book mentioned in every post so that latecomers like me don't have to miss out on the collective wisdom of the members. :)
I saw at least 10 books mentioned in the few pages I read that I want to read - if I ever finish my current "to be read" pile - so what am I missing because I don't have the time to read all 241 pages in this thread, not to mention all the other threads in all the forums? Help!

Okay that's enough of my ramblings (for now - I will be back).

aibrean

LaideeMarjorie

07-08-2009, 07:11 PM

I saw at least 10 books mentioned in the few pages I read that I want to read - if I ever finish my current "to be read" pile - so what am I missing because I don't have the time to read all 241 pages in this thread, not to mention all the other threads in all the forums? Help!

aibrean

aibrean,

Do you listen to Audiobooks? It's a new habit of several months that I have developed on my hour long (each way) commute. I get the books on CD from my library and listen in the car. I have re-visited the Mary Russell books that way, and I have also added some new ones like "The Daughter of Time" and "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd". It passes the time and keeps me calm in the midst of the awful rush hour traffic.

--Marjorie

aibrean

07-08-2009, 07:44 PM

Thanks Marjorie - I do sometimes listen to audiobooks, but hadn't quite got to the stage of considering it as a solution to my lack-of-reading-time problem. SD:rolleyes: Usually I switch between the classical music station and the traffic reports. I'll have to check if any of the books I want to read are available on audiobook.

Now for a solution to the other problem - what wonderful books that I'd really enjoy are mentioned on, say, page 153, of this thread, but I won't find out about them because I haven't time to read all the middle pages.

aibrean

LaideeMarjorie

07-08-2009, 07:56 PM

Now for a solution to the other problem - what wonderful books that I'd really enjoy are mentioned on, say, page 153, of this thread, but I won't find out about them because I haven't time to read all the middle pages.

aibrean

Oh, but that is easy! Do you belong to www.Goodreads.com ? A lot of us do and you can see what books we like that way (friend us! Vicki is there as is Laurie.) and each of the books has a average rating assigned to it based on a 1 to 5 scale. So if you see that Laurie's books are all near 5, for instance, you know that they are very good (but you knew that!). Just a thought as one way to get a lot of reader's opinions in one place.

--Marjorie

Pat Floyd

07-08-2009, 08:24 PM

Marjorie, your mention of The Daughter of Time reminded me how much I like all of Josephine Tey's books, many of which are remarkably different from one another. Brat Farrar may be my favorite.

LaideeMarjorie

07-08-2009, 08:30 PM

Marjorie, your mention of The Daughter of Time reminded me how much I like all of Josephine Tey's books, many of which are remarkably different from one another. Brat Farrar may be my favorite.

I will have to add that to my list, Pat. The great thing about the "DOT" Audiobook is that it was performed by Derek Jacobi. He did a masterful job with the various accents and genders of the characters. I am so thankful that the library in the town that I work in has such a good collection for me to borrow from.

--Marjorie

Meags2387

07-08-2009, 08:41 PM

Thanks to Meags' recommendation, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed Victoria Thompson's Murder on Astor Place and want to continue with the series. In the only other Victoria Thompson I've read, the villain was obvious to the reader long before the protagonists discovered him. Here I suspected the real villain very early, but not the murderer. I also like the developing relationship between Sarah and Molloy.

Pat,
What I love most particularly about that first one is the twist at the end. I figured out most of it early on, but I couldn't believe the twist at the end, it just astounded me. But what keeps me going through those books is the relationship between Sarah and Malloy. However, their relationship seems to be less of a focus in the newest book and it was a bit of a disappointment to me.
In other news I am reading more of the Lindsay Davis series. I started reading one only to realize that I had skipped the one before it!!!! I'm back on track now thoough. -Meags

tangential1

07-08-2009, 08:51 PM

Sting of Justice by Cora Harrison - mediaeval Irish mystery, 3rd in a series and they're all very good.

Bit of a tangent, but...has anyone else noticed the upswing in books set in Ireland? It seems like I've noticed at least a dozen in the last few months.

Oh, but that is easy! Do you belong to www.Goodreads.com ? A lot of us do and you can see what books we like that way (friend us! Vicki is there as is Laurie.)

Definitely hit up Goodreads. Even if you don't browse to see what everyone else is reading, it's way easier to keep track of your own TBR that way. Laurie's page is here (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6760.Laurie_R_King), fyi.

tangential1

07-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Oh and I wanted to say...

I'm a bit more than halfway through the third book in the Outlander series and I'm getting pretty bummed about it. The plot in this one is just so entirely contrived. From the very beginning I felt like this whole story really just should be ending with Clair finding her way back to Jamie and then a "they lived happily ever after" blurb. But no. Just really random drama that sends them all over the place. And the plot holes are driving me crazy.

Eh...I'll finish this one and move my focus to the new Maisie Dobbs.

SCWillson

07-09-2009, 12:03 AM

I started The Romantic Conception of Life: Science and Philosophy in the Age of Goethe by Robert Richards this afternoon. It discusses how Romanticism, far from being the opposite of the scientific mindset in the early 18th century, was a positive and inseparable part of science and the study of nature.

SCWillson

07-09-2009, 01:05 AM

Hi Steve,

I think I see how this could be.

I also think sometimes people have romantic notions of what working in a field might be like.I saw you're a retired geologist. Was there anything about your job that provided romance (not as in love); ie, the thrill of discovery, the adventure of doing research in remote or hostile locations? I would think that could be very exciting. Clearly a lot of the early geologists such as Charles Lyell (or even Charles Darwin when he figured out how atolls were formed) found a genuine thrill in learning a new truth.

SCWillson

07-09-2009, 11:40 PM

Steve, You just put your finger right on the appeal of the science for me. I always think of the opening scenes in The French Lieutenant's Woman, where the paleontologist is climbing over the rocks and discovering fossils. :) Heaven! The work of the pioneering geologists is so romantic to me, and it's about "mystery." That's what I wanted to do. I suspect every geologist loves the mystery involved. Unfortunately, it's difficult to just be a geologist these days. You always end up working for energy companies, or companies where you don't always get to do "real geology." For people like Lyell and Agassiz, the field was wide open and they were not so dependent on these energy companies. Geology is a series of big and small mysteries to be solved---working out the various environments, pulling maps and cross-sections together, trying to figure out what had happened on a particular spot at a particular time, whether 10 or 200 million years ago, etc. Sometimes the small mysteries are more exciting than the big ones. I never got to do anything extremely exotic, but I did get to see some exciting things, and I've always been thankful for it.I find the history of science almost as interesting as the science itself; which is one of the reasons I particularly enjoy reading about the Enlightenment. Geology and its sister science paleontology have always been my favorite science topics; and I'll drop almost anything to watch any TV show about either.

By any chance have you read Martin Rudwick's awesome duology (Worlds Before Adam: The Reconstruction of Geohistory in the Age of Reform and Bursting the Limits of Time: The Reconstruction of Geohistory in the Age of Revolution on the discovery of "deep time"? Both volumes are absolutely fascinating. I read them both last year and would rate them among the best books on science and the scientific method I've ever read.

SCWillson

07-11-2009, 12:56 AM

i haven't read them yet, Steve, but I'm taking down the titles and will look for them. There is a bookseller I use and sometimes stumble on some neat books of all types, incldg science books I don't always see in the bookstores.I hope you can find them used; they're not inexpensive new.

For me it was almost like following a mystery. As the clues to the Earth's ancientness accumulated, each natural philosopher (they weren't calling themselves scientists yet) added a bit more until the truth was found. :)

Pat Floyd

07-11-2009, 02:15 AM

By any chance have you read Martin Rudwick's awesome duology (Worlds Before Adam: The Reconstruction of Geohistory in the Age of Reform and Bursting the Limits of Time: The Reconstruction of Geohistory in the Age of Revolution on the discovery of "deep time"? Both volumes are absolutely fascinating. I read them both last year and would rate them among the best books on science and the scientific method I've ever read.

Our public library doesn't have these books, but I was able to read a good bit about them on the Chicago University website--not the same, of course, as reading the books. Amazon has used copies in the $25 to $35 dollar range. When my TBR stack gets lower, I may purchase or get them through a friend from the Vanderbilt University library. Thank you for telling us about them, Steve.

SCWillson

07-13-2009, 12:50 AM

Millie

07-13-2009, 03:21 AM

Get in line, Steve! I'm 35 (for a sadly short few more weeks), and I'm a huge Harry fan! I particularly love the Weasley twins, especially in the early books when they give Percy such a hard time :D

Jennifer

07-13-2009, 02:27 PM

As for the age issue, when Stephen King reviewed one of the books he said "that book is for everyone," meaning it wasn't a children's book exclusively. I suspect some of it goes right over the heads of some kids. Maybe when they read the stories again a bit later they'll pick up more. Makes me think of Rocky and Bullwinkle. I thought the jokes were dumb when I was a kid, that they just seemed like silly puns. Now, I think they're hilarious. Perspective.

I can vouch for the multi-layered meaning of Harry Potter. My daughter read all the books starting when she was a young child. As she re-reads them now, she is amazed at how clever they are on so many levels. By the way, as far as I remember, only one twin bought the farm. Still, it was a wrench.
Jennifer

Helen

07-13-2009, 03:11 PM

reading "The Angel's Game" by Carlos Ruiz Zafon. Really did enjoy his "Shadow of the Wind" and so far this one has sure moved along.
I have read a few of the Outlander books but not done yet. Seems to me when I read her books..it feels like moving There. Then when someone (and someone always does) wants my attention, I am like: HUH???? The transition back to the Real world is a bit of a challange!
Patrick Rothfuss has written a fabulous sci-fi (not really a fan but this book is GREAT!) "The Name of the Wind". Very interesting-excitting read.
________
Bmw dixi history (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_Dixi)

LaideeMarjorie

07-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Does anyone have an opinion about whether I should start reading her series about Evan Evans or Molly Murphy first? I usually like to read in order of writing which would mean "Evans Above" would be first, but I would like to hear your opinions.

Thanks,
Marjorie

jtb1951

07-13-2009, 04:46 PM

Patrick Rothfuss has written a fabulous sci-fi (not really a fan but this book is GREAT!) "The Name of the Wind". Very interesting-excitting read.

I was quite impressed by that book also and enjoyed it immensely; I look forward to his future work.

John.

aibrean

07-13-2009, 05:34 PM

Hi again.

I'm sitting in the staffroom trying to work up the enthusiasm to venture out into a truly awful downpour and start the drive home. This, however, is much more interesting!

LaideeMarjorie - thank you for your recommendation of GoodBooks - I've joined up and some day soon, when I have more than five minutes to spare, I'll investigate it properly. For now, I can say it seems like just what I wanted.

Now a question - am I the only member of this site who has never seen a Harry Potter film from start to finish? :) I like the books - I even reread them, but somehow it's never translated into an interest in the films. Convince me what I'm missing!

Okay, the rain has stopped, more or less, so I'm going before it starts again.

See ya!

aibrean

LaideeMarjorie

07-13-2009, 06:11 PM

Hi again.
LaideeMarjorie - thank you for your recommendation of GoodBooks - I've joined up and some day soon, when I have more than five minutes to spare, I'll investigate it properly. For now, I can say it seems like just what I wanted.

Now a question - am I the only member of this site who has never seen a Harry Potter film from start to finish? :) I like the books - I even reread them, but somehow it's never translated into an interest in the films. Convince me what I'm missing!

aibrean

You are welcome. I love that I can see what books people like Laurie, Dana Stabenow and our own Vicki have liked (and even the ones that they didn't like!).

I love watching the Harry Potter movies (I haven't read the books) because I love English actors and the movies are chock full of people from Kenneth Brannagh, David Tennant and Shirley Henderson, to name but a few who aren't in all that many movies. So when I watch them I get my Anglophilic treat. Between that and Masterpiece on PBS, I get my fill!

--Marjorie

Jennifer

07-13-2009, 06:25 PM

Now a question - am I the only member of this site who has never seen a Harry Potter film from start to finish? :) I like the books - I even reread them, but somehow it's never translated into an interest in the films. Convince me what I'm missing!
aibrean

Aibrean,
I feel for you. As a fan of a good story, it's often been difficult to watch how the scriptwriter and film makers have chosen to translate the HP books. I think I finally came to terms with this unfortunate fact of life around the 4th film. I liked so many things about the 4th but I had to smack my forehead in amazement at what they chose to invent, rather than use the wonderful material they'd paid a king's ransom (and then some) for. I am doing better since then. The 5th film ran at breakneck pace, being the longest book and the shortest film but somehow it held together. Perhaps the fact that it was the shortest film gave them less time to veer off. I do wonder what people who only see the films (and don't read the books) make of the storyline. It seems we've entered a new age in story-telling when a film doesn't have to hang together but can depend on the audience to fill in the blanks. Feels like a violation but I am sure the avant garde would just say "Get with the program, granny..."
Jennifer

SCWillson

07-13-2009, 11:47 PM

Funny you all should mention this. I've been thinking all weekend what a big hole was left after I finished the Harry books. There's nothing to fill the void. In addition to which, there are two movies to be made after this one that's just coming out. Dan Radcliffe is going to be white-haired if they don't get on with it. :( Nope; there's just one more Harry Potter movie after Half Blood Prince. :) :(

The neat thing, for me at least, is that I enjoy both the books and the films. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Being a reader I probably enjoy the books more, but the films are still a lot of fun to watch (with absolutely brilliant casting).

LindaE

07-13-2009, 11:58 PM

I thought Deathly Hollows was to be in two parts. IE two movies. According to Wikipedia, anyway. Maybe that's changed?

112233

07-14-2009, 12:01 AM

I started rereading the Harry Potter books again Thursday. I just now finished Book Two. Only four more to go before I go see the new film adaptation of Book Six next weekend.

Yeah, I'm 50 and enjoy Harry Potter. So sue me. :) :D

That made me chuckle!! I'm 85 and reread the Harry Potter books regularly (on audio) . I thought the movies were great until the last one. That was sort of a precis. I wondered what anyone could make of it if they hadn't read the books.

As you can see I haven't figured out the quote procedure. Sigh.

SCWillson

07-14-2009, 12:32 AM

I thought Deathly Hollows was to be in two parts. IE two movies. According to Wikipedia, anyway. Maybe that's changed?Egad, I hope not. I suppose that even if that's the case, it's possible both will be filmed at the same time.

SCWillson

07-14-2009, 12:34 AM

:D

That made me chuckle!! I'm 85 and reread the Harry Potter books regularly (on audio) . I thought the movies were great until the last one. That was sort of a precis. I wondered what anyone could make of it if they hadn't read the books.

As you can see I haven't figured out the quote procedure. Sigh.I hope I can still read when I'm 85, although at the rate my body is deteriorating I'll probably be a brain in a jar by then. :p

Elizabeth Chase

07-14-2009, 06:05 AM

Egad, I hope not. I suppose that even if that's the case, it's possible both will be filmed at the same time.

The final HP book, Deathly Hallows, has indeed been divided into two parts. Production began this past April and both movies are being filmed at the same time. Part 1 will be released Nov. 2010 and 2 the next summer.

For this diehard HP fan the movies are a big disappointment, especially the mistreatment of S Snape. :mad: Of course, Alan Rickman rises to the challenge and chews the scenery with gusto!

KarenB

07-14-2009, 12:30 PM

LindaE

07-14-2009, 12:54 PM

The neat thing, for me at least, is that I enjoy both the books and the films. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Being a reader I probably enjoy the books more, but the films are still a lot of fun to watch (with absolutely brilliant casting).

Same here. I appreciate them for what they are. Of course, I enjoy the books more. I'm a diehard Potter fan but have no real problem with the movies. Film-makers can't pack every line, every detail, of a book into a movie. It would be stupendous if they could, but they can't. Movies of books aren't always that successful, whereas those based on books seem to be more so. I don't expect to have a film from a book to be a perfect mirror of the book.

LaideeMarjorie

07-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Back to your question, Marjorie, about the Evans and Molly Murphy books. It doesn't really matter as the two series have nothing to do with each other. I like the Evans books best as I found Evans to be a eminently likeable character and the books had a good bit of humor. While I like the Molly books and the Royal Spyness ones, they aren't quite as humorous, although the historical bits are more interesting. The love interests in both of these also annoy me.

Thanks so much, Karen. That gives me a good starting off place. I am in the middle of my first Peter Robinson. Then I will be reading the 2nd of Victoria Thompson "Murder On..." series. And then maybe the 3rd Dana Stabenow Kate books. Perhaps Rhys Bowen after that? But the annoying love interests does make me a bit wary! I like a good bit of romance thrown in one way or another.

--Marjorie

Pat Floyd

07-14-2009, 03:04 PM

Marjorie, I agree with Karen about Rhys Bowen's books, but I really don't care for the Lady Geogiana series.

LaideeMarjorie

07-14-2009, 03:08 PM

Marjorie, I agree with Karen about Rhys Bowen's books, but I really don't care for the Lady Geogiana series.

Thanks, Pat.

Any other suggestion for something else to read? Maybe I need something different in a mystery that is gritty and sexy and fast paced (or hard boiled) for a change of pace!

--Marjorie

annie

07-14-2009, 04:56 PM

I felt that way about Gone With the Wind. When I got around to reading the book, I was unhappy with how much of the story that was worthwhile got left out. Most people have seen that film and never knew that Scarlett had three kids, that Rhett asked her on more than other occasion to be his mistress, that they were making coffee out of peas, to mention just a little of what was left out. I complained about the omissions in GWTW to a friend who was in the film industry and he shook his head in amazement. "C'mon, it was 4 hours long as it was!" Not quite my point.

I don't have such a strong feeling about HP though. I know that some things got left out but don't feel the plots were violated.

There's only so much they can do in a movie. I loved the movies and wouldn't have missed them for anything. I'm looking forward to the new one.

--------------------------------

Has anyone seen the new Miss Marple? I like her so far.

I agree, Geraldine McEwan does very well - did you realise that she plays the witch in Kevin Costner's "Robin Hood" film - the one with Alan Rickman as the panto villain?
Our latest TV Robin Hood has just finished - by no means the best Robin & the gang, but Keith Allan as a comic Sherriff and Richard Armitage as a brooding, darkly handsome Guy of Gisbourne were just the thing! It all ended in tears before teatime.

aibrean

07-14-2009, 05:45 PM

Hi again.

Sorry - I didn't mean to derail this thread into a Harry Potter film thread:o

I'm not sure about Geraldine McEwan as Miss Marple, perhaps because I don't really see the point of some of the plot changes etc. they made. My favourite Miss Marple is Margaret Rutherford. I know she's nothing like the character as described by Agatha Christie, and that most of the stories are completely unrelated to the books, but she's brilliant!!

Now, back to books.

I've only read one Rhys Bowen and can't remember the name (it was one of the Evans series) although I quite liked it. Yet another writer to be added to my "to be read" list.

Now that I've signed up to GoodBooks, how do I "friend" people? I'm actually quite technologically illiterate - no facebook page, no instant messaging, and I think that electronic books like K*@%$e spell the end of civilisation - but I do want to see your recommendations, books either to read or to avoid.

aibrean

tangential1

07-14-2009, 07:24 PM

I started rereading the Harry Potter books again Thursday. I just now finished Book Two.

Yay! Harry Potter!! I've got tickets to the midnight show tonight. Going to be a long night, for sure, but much fun too:D

I wasn't happy that Rowling killed the twins off.

I was bummed about Fred getting killed too. I absolutely loved the twins as a pair. Totally ashamed, but I wondered if it wouldn't have been better if they had both died rather than one having to grieve over the other (George only lost an ear).

I have read a few of the Outlander books but not done yet. Seems to me when I read her books..it feels like moving There. Then when someone (and someone always does) wants my attention, I am like: HUH???? The transition back to the Real world is a bit of a challange!

This is exactly what I've been experiencing with those books! So even though I found the third one (Voyager) to be entirely contrived and expect the next one to be even worse...I'm enjoying the escape and gave in to the temptation to continue reading:rolleyes:

Back to your question, Marjorie.... I like the Evans books best as I found Evans to be a eminently likeable character and the books had a good bit of humor.

Ah cool. I've just added her to my TBR and wasn't sure where to start either.

Now that I've signed up to GoodBooks, how do I "friend" people?

To start with, if you look up Laurie's page (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6760.Laurie_R_King) you can friend her. And if you know some other names you can look them up under the Friends tab at the top of the page. Just take a few minutes to play around with the site and get a feel for things. Here's my profile (http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/989689) page too, if you want to friend me. And I've got several VBC names in my friends list if you want to friend some of them too. PM me (here or on GoodReads) if you have any questions!:)