New Holmes Movie

[nkk1969]

Don't throw things at your computer when you read this next sentence.

I didn't hate this movie. In fact, I rather liked it. Aside from a few minor (and a major) points, it was Canonical, complete with inside Canon jokes. Our crew were in the minority who got the inside jokes. People were turning around to look at us and a few others who laughed in the appropriate spots. The division between Holmesians and the...infidels...was apparent all the way through.

It could also have been Kanonical, as far as that goes.

Spoiler Alert. Stop reading now if you don't want to know a few minor happenings.








Major non-Canon things:

Watson introduces Mary Morstan to Holmes right before they are officially engaged. As we all know, they all met because she was a client, so Holmes knew her. If Les Klinger advised on the script, he dropped the ball on this one. Or else Guy Ritchie needed the plot device anyway and didn't care. I think that option more likely.

Holmes looks more like Gregory House than Sherlock Holmes. I wanted to grab him, hold him down, and run a razor over his face.

Funny bits:

Watson has a bulldog name Gladstone.

"Who wants to marry a doctor if he can't tell whether a man is dead or not?"

[Jennifer]

Don't throw things at your computer when you read this next sentence.

I didn't hate this movie. In fact, I rather liked it. Aside from a few minor (and a major) points, it was Canonical, complete with inside Canon jokes. Our crew were in the minority who got the inside jokes. People were turning around to look at us and a few others who laughed in the appropriate spots. The division between Holmesians and the...infidels...was apparent all the way through.



Hi nkk1969,
Not a bit surprised that you didn't hate this movie! It looks like a lot of fun. I am finding that kids are very intrigued by this "new character..." But I wanted to ask you, do you think this film might lead kids, teens, to become interested in the written Holmes and if so, are they going to find a character they like or one so radically different (despite the adherance to canon) they can't make the jump? I mean, no one can deny that on paper, Holmes is formidable, but I just never thought that one day I might be contemplating Holmes in razor stubble (never mind any level of undress...).
Jennifer

[nkk1969]

Jennifer,

I think I was surprised because I was fully prepared to hate it. Caitlin was excited and thought it looked good. I wanted to go to make fun of all the mistakes I was sure it was going to contain.

It certainly made one of Caitlin's friends curious about several aspects of the story. She wanted to know if Irene Adler was a real Sherlock Holmes character, and if so, who was she really? We took her home and let her watch A Scandal in Bohemia. Caitlin not-so-gently chided her for not knowing about Irene. "If you had finished reading BEEK, I'd've given you the other LRK books and you'd know these things."

Maybe the funniest commentary on the world changing since ACD first brought Holmes to life was something Caitlin said to her friend. She was attempting to explain Canon and Kanon to Maleea, and how Irene fit into each one. Poor little Maleea just wasn't getting it. With a theatrical sigh of exasperation, Caitlin said, "She basically ends up being Holmes' baby mama."


Nikki

[Jennifer]

With a theatrical sigh of exasperation, Caitlin said, "She basically ends up being Holmes' baby mama."
Nikki

I am not up on slang, at least not to use a lot of it comfortably. Wow. That Holmes' relationship to Irene in kanon could be expressed that way, it sets you back on your heels....Keep trying to explain how Canon and kanon work. Our children deserve to know and love literature...
Jennifer

[lklinger]

Ah, yes, Mary Morstan was in the script in this characterization long before I first read it. However, I thought, well, if that's the only liberty taken... And there were so many lovely Canonical lines (and of course homages to previous depictions of SH on screen). I'd love to take credit for all the good things, but really credit goes to Lionel Wigram, who lovingly produced the film, the other writers, Susan Downey, and Guy Ritchie and the entire cast and production crew, who all tried hard to capture the spirit of the stories.

Les Klinger

[Pat Floyd]

Les, we're honored to have your participation in VBC and thank you for all you've done to bring us appreciation of Holmes.

[nkk1969]

Ah, yes, Mary Morstan was in the script in this characterization long before I first read it.

I'm glad to hear that from you. :D As I said, though, we figured as much. We staged a little (less than 30 seconds) discussion on the topic while watching the film. The folks in the row in front of us were Not Amused. {shrug and grin}

We thoroughly enjoyed all the references to Canon and speculated on how Kanon could be worked into the next movie. We're planning on taking in a matinee show just to try to remember more of the surprise Canon goodies.

Nikki

P.S. We also wanted to know who was responsible for the chamber maid joke? We sort of hoped it was you. That was a thing of beauty!

[nkk1969]

I am not up on slang, at least not to use a lot of it comfortably. Wow. That Holmes' relationship to Irene in kanon could be expressed that way, it sets you back on your heels....

The definition of a baby mama, or by extension, a baby daddy, is someone who you had a child with, but were not married to. It also implies there is not an ongoing intimate relationship between the parents. In this usage, that's exactly what happened. Caitlin simply put it in terms her friend could grasp. It wasn't her first choice of explanations, but it did the trick.

This is what divides Caitlin's friends into groups--readers and non-readers. That's not to say that the members of the second group are illiterate. They can read, but they do not chose to do it for fun. Overall she's much more comfortable with those who can intelligently discuss a book. ;)

Nikki

[Strawberry Curls]

We thoroughly enjoyed all the references to Canon and speculated on how Kanon could be worked into the next movie. Oh, dear God, NOOOOOOO. I believe that just might do me in. :eek:

[nkk1969]

Alice,

I knew you'd be one who wouldn't believe I could like this movie. Like I said, I was prepared to hate it, but just couldn't do it. You should at least go see it for yourself before passing judgment.

If you can get past Holmes being grungy and vertically challenged--I'll admit, that was the most difficult thing for me, but I knew it going in and tried to dismiss it--and the Mary Morstan thing, it's Canon all the way. I swear. :)

Don't hate me, Alice. I'm not a traitor; honest, I'm not.

[nkk1969]

but I just never thought that one day I might be contemplating Holmes in razor stubble (never mind any level of undress...).


You're a better woman than me if you can read Kanon and not contemplate Holmes in some level of undress. (evil grin)

Nikki

[Strawberry Curls]

Alice,

I knew you'd be one who wouldn't believe I could like this movie. Like I said, I was prepared to hate it, but just couldn't do it. You should at least go see it for yourself before passing judgment.

If you can get past Holmes being grungy and vertically challenged--I'll admit, that was the most difficult thing for me, but I knew it going in and tried to dismiss it--and the Mary Morstan thing, it's Canon all the way. I swear. :)

Don't hate me, Alice. I'm not a traitor; honest, I'm not.I don't hate you, far from it, you gave your honest apprasal of the movie, that is all. I will see this some time on cable or DVD, but have to say I'll not pay good money to see it in a theater, but then I rarely see movies in theaters these days. I believe the first I've see in a couple of years was Star Trek, which I loved, and I'm a died in the wool Trekkie, so I can be pleased.

I can't get past the grubby, slovenly, short Holmes is all. I said that the minute they cast RDJ and I haven't changed my opinion, only amended to add grubby and slovenly. Also, I will never be able to accept an "action figure" Holmes. Yes, he was a man of action -- a bit of burglary and even fisticuffs were not beyond Holmes, but Mr. Ritchie has a need to do things very large and very loud and well, pandering to those who like more action and less substance. It isn't just this movie I don't like by this director, I don't care for any of his movies. This is my personal preference is all. YMMV as they say. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Oh, and my previous post was not a statement on your liking the movie, Nikki, but the idea of the next incorporating anything from Kanon. **shudder**

[lizbet]

Holmes in a state of undress - wasn't it Ronnie Beaconsfield who confessed to Russell that she thought Holmes had heaps of S.A. (sex appeal) ;) the image of Holmes that comes to my mind when one says in a 'state of undress' (though the reference alludes me) is when Russell comes into their room and Holmes just bathed and is wrestling with his cuff links but his hair is still wet and disshelved and Russell smiles and thinks he looks like a little boy? Charm, charisma, wit & intellect - that's my kind of sexy not Hollywood physical sexy - and I think that's the kind of S.A. Ronnie Beaconsfield was referring to also.

More than RDJr's Holmes being "vertically challenged" - I'm having trouble with Jude Law's Watson or "Hot-son" as the media are referring him - egads, Russell's Uncle John as sexy - what's next a buffed and ripped Mycroft :rolleyes:

[Strawberry Curls]

Well said, Lizbet!!:D:D

[Elizabeth Chase]

I've pretty much decided to wait for the DVD! Those first photos of RDJ that we saw reminded me too much of 'the little tramp' and not Sherlock Holmes.:mad:
A comment by a reviewer also surprised me; apparently Miss Adler is a criminal in the movie or he just doesn't know canon and assumes she must have been a criminal to have bested Holmes.:rolleyes:

[Jennifer]

You're a better woman than me if you can read Kanon and not contemplate Holmes in some level of undress. (evil grin)

Nikki
I guess I am one of those people (I hope there is more than one) who prefers the sex appeal of a brilliant mind. I never had those sorts of thoughts about Holmes but surely didn't begrudge Russell her moments. I just always thought of them as being a couple. I certainly enjoyed their contractual discussion on the pier and thought him quite capable of being romantic, just never something I contemplated personally. Maybe I am slow...So, when you get this Holmes who seems from the trailer so out there, so intensely physical, so grubby in a sexy way, it's just a reinvention of Holmes that one can adapt to, of course, but it wasn't my Holmes. Including constant seeming undress!
Jennifer

[Elizabeth Chase]

I guess I am one of those people (I hope there is more than one) who prefers the sex appeal of a brilliant mind. I never had those sorts of thoughts about Holmes but surely didn't begrudge Russell her moments. I just always thought of them as being a couple. I certainly enjoyed their contractual discussion on the pier and thought him quite capable of being romantic, just never something I contemplated personally. Maybe I am slow...So, when you get this Holmes who seems from the trailer so out there, so intensely physical, so grubby in a sexy way, it's just a reinvention of Holmes that one can adapt to, of course, but it wasn't my Holmes. Including constant seeming undress!
Jennifer

I'm inclined to agree with you, Jennifer! RDJ's Holmes in any state of dress or undress doesn't match my image of Russell's dignified husband! I've always had JB in mind from the beginning; pity he'd no longer with us.

[Strawberry Curls]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Jennifer! RDJ's Holmes in any state of dress or undress doesn't match my image of Russell's dignified husband! I've always had JB in mind from the beginning; pity he'd no longer with us.Amen to that!

[LaideeMarjorie]

No matter what any of who love Holmes thought, the movie brought in an incredible $65,4000,000 over the weekend. And that makes the movie a huge hit.

As I said other places, I give it a 5 out of 10 rating because they had the means to truly make it a fully fleshed out movie and not a video game (in its endless violence) without nearly enough in the way of human moments between the characters. There were glimpses of what could have been, but it should have been more than it was.

--Marjorie

[Jennifer]

It's a truth of the world that money talks. And ignorance is no barrier to success. Reinvention will always be with us but it strikes me that something will have been lost if the Holmes from Canon is no longer remembered or even possible.
Jennifer

[tangential1]

I actually really enjoyed this movie. I was a bit indignant about the whole sorcery subject line, but the ending was truly Holmes-ish, which soothed my indignation;)

RDJ's portrayal of Holmes kind of grew on me. He's not quite the fastidious Holmes that we know (and love) from Kanon (haven't actually read much of Canon, so perhaps that adds in to my acceptance) and he's a little more flamboyant/over-the-top in his reactions (for example, when he grabs Watson's coat and jumps out the window to follow Irene), but I liked him anyway. It was a very fun re-imagining. And my friends and I decided that Watson's character was the best of the movie; he's kind of been short-shrifted in previous movies (imo) as a very stodgy old guy, and I liked Jude Law's portrayal so much better.

The only character that I didn't particularly care for was Irene Adler, but only about half the time. I liked her snarky remarks and the couple of spots where she out-smarts Holmes, but the "emotional" mushy lines were just way bland...although perhaps it was more that they really didn't fit with the tone of the movie. I definitely wasn't rooting for them to get together at any point in the film, so I didn't particularly care that she "didn't want to run anymore." And, as someone said above (now I can't find your comment!), they did portray her as an outright thief, stealing jewelry and money and whatnot, which obviously is not Canon, but I think fit into this particular retelling fairly well anyway.

Anyway, I thought it was an excellent film. Although I can fully appreciate where you're coming from Alice...I had the same reaction to Harry Potter 4 (although I still went to see it...because I have a horrible HP addiction and am apparently masochistic like that;))

[AmyLizzie]

I have to say I loved it :) I thought RDJ was brilliant - even if his accent was a bit off and Jude Law was amazing, I loved all the little references to other Holmes films and I thought they remained very true to character. I would love them to make more as I think Guy Ritchie did an excellent job. Oh and the music was just inspired!! Loved it :D

[jtb1951]

Family and I went to see the movie last night, and I went in without any expectations of seeing the Canonical world which exists in my head. That being said, I enjoyed the movie tremendously. It certainly was set as an action film, and did not disappoint in that regard. If I went into movies-made-from-books films expecting to get the books I probably would never have gone to see a fair number of films that I ended up enjoying. Probably my best example of this is the Lord of the Rings trilogy of films, which Peter J. played fairly foot loose and fancy free with, but which turned out to be great cinema. I have enjoyed all of the Harry Potter movies even though there are obvious artistic liberties taken also. Bottom line, I thought Sherlock Holmes was excellent entertainment!

John.

[Jennifer]

I have thought a great deal about the art of adapting literature for the screen, not in any great scholastic manner but just as an armchair hobby. Harry Potter, as much as they work on the films, as much as they invest in working to make them wonderful, they just seem to miss the mark for me. I know it's mainly because I have a personal investment in the character and want to see him portrayed with all the reality that he has for me. That said, I can look at HP and say objectively which ones got closest. I love Dan Radcliffe and have enjoyed watching his abilities grow. I came to LOTR a clean slate having never enjoyed the books. I think that may be my best bet for enjoying both forms of the story. I had no preconceived notions, no great attachments, no idea of how the story should look. Then, after falling head-over-heels for the story as presented on film, I read the books and could look at the differences and not feel cheated. I have a friend who can not watch the films, she is so incensed by the liberties the screenwriter and director took. What a pity! There is much to commend them in their efforts. Now this new film, this new take on Holmes, it reminds me of the new Bond. I read a review that bemoaned the changes made in his character, how Bond would have never been involved in such terrible activities, never acted the way he did. But Daniel Craig has reinvented the character for better or worse and it seems that all those changes have been assimulated by the public. I am sure the New Holmes will too be taken into the bosom of the public and there will be more adventures. While I could worry that the movie-going public may never meet the real Holmes (sorry, the Holmes of literary fame) there's only a moderate chance they ever would have met him...So, for all intents and purposes, it's a happy wash for all involved!
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Well said Jennifer :D

[Strawberry Curls]

I agree, a well written and thought provoking post, Jennifer.

[Jennifer]

Thank you for the appreciation. It's hard to know how to handle the reinvention of a legend. At least on the receiving end! I am sure Guy Ritchie is not up at nights, wondering if he "got it right!" And for all intents and purposes, it seems he managed to walk that fine line. I am with the crowd who'll watch it on dvd later next year most likely.
Jennifer

[Millie]

DH and I plan to see it next weekend, when the kids are (hopefully, fingers crossed) going to be at their grandparents for the weekend. After reading all your thoughts, I can't wait!

[tangential1]

Kind of tangenting, but...

I found out rather recently that there are actually very few screenplays that aren't adapted from books, stories that were written specifically for the screen, we just aren't familiar with all of the books. We love to hate book adaptations (at least those that are our favorites), but I wonder how many films have been an improvement on a not so well written book with an interesting plot.:cool:

[Jennifer]

Kind of tangenting, but...

I found out rather recently that there are actually very few screenplays that aren't adapted from books, stories that were written specifically for the screen, we just aren't familiar with all of the books. We love to hate book adaptations (at least those that are our favorites), but I wonder how many films have been an improvement on a not so well written book with an interesting plot.:cool:

Erin,
Glad you asked. 3 of my favorite films made from adaptation (chime in with your picks!) are "To Kill a Mockingbird," "Paper Moon," and "Ordinary People." The first two were absolutely great books that were trimmed to fit the time and tightened as stories but the essense of the stories was preserved. "Ordinary People" was a first novel and a bit self-indulgent. I think Robert Redford did a fabulous job of finding the core story and sticking with it. Some really awful adaptations (when compared with the original material "October Sky," for one. I dare you all to read "Rocket Boys" and not feel very sad that Hollywood got hold of that story. Hollywood can not handle West Virginia in any credible manner. It all has to be ignorant rednecks cussing up a storm...
Jennifer

[Lenore]

I am reminded of something William Goldman (famous novelist AND famous screenwriter) said in his memoir, Adventures in the Screen Trade. In discussing other people's adaptations of his novels, he tells himself (I don't have the book where I can find it, so I hope I've got it somewhat right): "It's not my book, it's their movie."

[Carlina]

I'll be honest and say I haven't read all the responses in this thread. I did read the first page and I'm glad to see some of you liked the film. I have been on holiday in Indonesia and had to wait to see SH here. After finally seeing it, there are a number of things I can say. Firstly though, thanks to Les Klinger for joining in. Always nice to have a Holmesian on board ;-).

Next...

THANK YOU GUY RITCHIE FOR GIVING US WATSON!

*ahem...clears throat*

I liked the movie...yes while RDJ's Holmes doesn't rank at my top, I can still say I liked him. I found him endearing as Holmes. I think the real show stealer here was Jude Law's Watson. For years many Holmesians have been waiting for a real Watson and this, by all means was it, if not stepped up a bit. Watson the solider, Watson the gambler, Watson the man that could hold his own with Holmes. Yes, there are some things in the film Watson doesn't do in the canon, but given Watson's bull pup...well...who knows if one plays the game. It was nice to see the mother hen, bumbling Watson..etc...etc...etc...thrown aside. If I must thank LW, Ritchie, or Klinger for that then 1 million thanks!

I was so happy to see how canonical the film was pulling direct quotes and characterizations from the stories. Even Lord Blackwood's name comes from the Marazin Stone if you are up on your Latin.

I think RDJ got the character well and for those of you going on about taking a razor to his face...well I'm willing to be flexible. Holmes was in between cases when the film picks up and he was clearly fighting a black mood. I really wouldn't be surprised if he didn't shave then. Then being hot on the trail...well...Once again I can be flexible.

Irene Adler...loved with they did with the character, but she wasn't really...well I think Watson's term Muse is appropriate in my opinion.

Oh and the chappy that plays Lord Blackwood's father...He plays Holmes in the BBC radio adaptation of BEEK. Don't know if that was mentioned...

Overall, I liked the film. We saw it here in Indonesia in THX sound and our ears were discombobulated hours after the fact. I lost count of the number of cracks we heard. I think what the film does portray so brilliantly is the relationship and deep friendship between these two special characters. I can say that I was rather pleased with this new reboot and I look forward to any follow-ups. I will say, yes, Holmes' wardrobe does leave much to be desired for, but I can look past that. I'm just glad to see SOMEONE has finally touched on the darker aspects of the stories and illustrated that Holmes was quite capable of holding his own athletically (as he did in the canon) and that Watson was his own independent man as smart and capable as Holmes. (OMG THE LIMP!! THANK YOU LAW!)

Ok off now. It's New Years Even here as we are 12 hours ahead of EST. I hope you all have a very Happy NEw Year!

[Lenore]

There's a radio adaptation of BEEK? Can you provide a link?

[Millie]

I'm just back from seeing the movie (in Gold Class, no less!) and I thought it was fantastic. I went in with low expectations, thinking that I like RDJ and I like Guy Ritchie, so I'll just forget that it's Holmes and see what it's like. Well, I couldn't forget that it was Holmes because RDJ was Holmes. I totally believed his black mood between cases, and, like Carlina, I could forgive the scruffy bearded Holmes.

I also liked the portrayal of Holmes and Watson's deep friendship, and I appreciated seeing a more vulnerable Holmes who was terrified of losing his best friend to marriage.

[Sara McClelland]

I saw the movie with my brothers (who, while are not in possession of the breadth of Holmes knowledge I am- which isn't all that much in comparison with most of YOU!- were nevertheless understanding of my obsession and asked afterwards how closely it resembled the canon) and actually....liked it.

Praise: I liked the darkness of the entire thing- the city looks DIRTY and gross and soot-y. Good mood setting technique. I liked Law's Watson very VERY much. And someone else mentioned how frightened Holmes seemed at the prospect of losing him to marriage. Spot on in the portrayal. It was so much more fun to see Watson as less bumbling and more rough-and-tumble. Holmes' internal discussions on what he would do and what would happen were interesting- like opening up the back of a clock to see the inner functions. Holmes, like London, was dark, and dirty.

Things to polish: HOLMES DIRTY?!? I thought he was impeccable, no matter what- something about fresh collars being brought by Irregulars? The man is supposed to be a slob about his home but impeccably dressed, unless the costume calls for messiness. Irene Adler was...pretty, but not what I imagined.

Random: I should have counted the quotes from the canon- there were some obvious ones, and some that aren't as obvious unless you're a Holmes-person, so that was fun. And the ending was...well, I assume we will have further discussions in coming years. All in all, a fun romp through Victorian England with one of the best consulting detectives the world has ever seen. :)

[SCWillson]

Saw it last Saturday. As with most of the previous posters I went in with fairly low expectations, so I was very pleasantly surprised. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Even the bit with Irene Adler was OK. Although it violates Kanon, in the original period actors and performers were often seen as borderline members of society. Clearly Holmes in A Scandal in Bohemia didn't have any problem thinking Miss Adler might be a blackmailer; indeed he was fooled primarily because he assumed her motives were less than worthy.

[Davina]

When I first heard of it, I was pretty sure I would hate it. After I saw trailers I was somewhat interested.

I never did see it in the theater, but I was having a bad day, and when I have a bad day, my dear husband tries to find me something British to cheer me up. Because reminders of home always make me happy.

Being that this was a particularly bad day, he decided this on dvd would cheer me up.

I have to say I did enjoy it. The friendship between Holmes and Watson was done well and I too enjoyed getting to see a very active Watson. I loved all the little nods to canon, it made me very happy to see them.

RDJ is always fantastic to watch and he gave a great performance, but he's still never going to beat JB in my mind, he'll always be Holmes to me.

Having said that, RDJ wasn't bad at all. I hear that they are doing a sequel!

I can say without a doubt though, if the Sherlock Holmes movie with Will Ferrel does go ahead, I do have no intention of EVER watching that one.

[Jennifer]

Davina,
I think the key for me to enjoying all these new ways of doing "Holmes" is to just go with it. I think this active, very physical kind of Holmes is very entertaining. I just have these walls in my mind between the trad. and the shock of the new...
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

As you can see back thread I was decidedly put off by the casting of Mr RDJ and I still feel it was wrong in so many way. Holmes is just not this dirty, runt of a man. RDJ is a good actor and he was hot off his action hero buzz, but he will never be any type of Holmes for me.

Now, I have to admit I finally watched the DVD a few weeks ago and tried, really, I tried to suspend belief and just go with the flow, but the frat boy, filthy Holmes was way out of my comfort zone, and as much as I think Law has the looks and presence to do justice to Watson, he didn't do it for me either. His costumes (and they looked just like costumes as did all the clothing Holmes wore) and his pissy attitude just wasn't how I picture Watson. What the hell was that King of Bohemia knock off "formal wear" he wore to dinner with Holmes and Mary? Oh, and Irene, lord she was so annoying. She didn't come off as smart, able or even sexy, and the chemistry between RDJ and whatshername was just flat, no sparks, nada!! I didn't think there was much between Watson and Mary either, but I probably could forgive that. So, IMHO the movie lived up to my expectations, it was pretty dreadful. Again, just my opinion.

[Millie]

LOL Alice, I enjoyed the movie but I have to say I enjoyed your review way, way more. :D :D

[Strawberry Curls]

LOL Alice, I enjoyed the movie but I have to say I enjoyed your review way, way more. :D :D:D:D:D Millie, I don't know if that is a compliment to my commentary, or validation of how weak the movie really was. LOL Either way, I thank you, Millie.

[Jennifer]

Wow Alice,
I am still feeling around for what's left of my eyebrows...That was one hot review! I think your righteous anger is completely justified. I was put off in the beginning. I can only watch this action hero Holmes if I just tell myself, it's not really Holmes, it's just a couple of guys play-acting. It would be a fine movie if their names weren't Holmes and Watson. Thumbing one's nose at tradition is a big deal, makes money, gets people talking...But judging from the speed this film hit our "cheap theater," it wasn't a rousing success....
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

Lol, I think I'm the only one on here who totally loved it! Still...plus sooooo many of my students are now taking out the books because of the movie and loving them, they think Holmes is 'the man' and love the stories, so in my opinion anything that can do that to 16 year olds is worth their weight in gold...

[Jennifer]

Lol, I think I'm the only one on here who totally loved it! Still...plus sooooo many of my students are now taking out the books because of the movie and loving them, they think Holmes is 'the man' and love the stories, so in my opinion anything that can do that to 16 year olds is worth their weight in gold...

It's definitely worth its weight if it gets kids reading. But tell me, do they see the man in the books as the man in the movie? Or does it even matter? No, I am a fuddy-duddy, for sure. If they are reading the books, it's good.
Jennifer

[Davina]

Jennifer, I totally agree, I think my enjoyment of it really stemmed from being able to sit back and just enjoy it as a movie and not really think of RDJ as Holmes, if that makes any sense. But I did enjoy what cannon I got.


AmyLizzie, I'd say it was totally worth it, if its gaining ACD new readers :)

Alice, I couldn't agree more with your view on this Irene, I wasn't enamoured with her myself. I didn't think there was good chemistry between them either.

[Strawberry Curls]

Sorry, my "review" was so blistering, but I have had pent up feeling about this movie for some time and it sort of spewed on the page.

I have to agree if people (of any age) start reading Canon because of seeing that movie, then the movie was a success. Anything that gets kids to read Canon has got to be a good thing and I applaud every librarian, parent, and/or teacher who pushes a copy of Doyle's stories into the hand of a young person who is talking about how cool and mega rad (I can't even come up with the current expressions I'm so out of the loop with youngsters) the movie was.

[tangential1]

Lol, I think I'm the only one on here who totally loved it! Still...plus sooooo many of my students are now taking out the books because of the movie and loving them, they think Holmes is 'the man' and love the stories, so in my opinion anything that can do that to 16 year olds is worth their weight in gold...

You're not the only one, Amy; I loved it too :)

[AmyLizzie]

It's definitely worth its weight if it gets kids reading. But tell me, do they see the man in the books as the man in the movie? Or does it even matter? No, I am a fuddy-duddy, for sure. If they are reading the books, it's good.
Jennifer

To be honest there's only a few of them that would have the intellectual capacity to separate the two, but from what they've been telling me the man in the book and the man in the movie are one and the same. They do find the writing a little too formal and stiff than what they're used to but I think the characters have stood the test - which is no mean feat! Either way the books have definitely not put them off and they're asking for more so eventually I may add Russell to the mix...not sure how they'd take that though....at the moment I'm just overjoyed that they're reading something other than Darren Shan (who I can't stand!) and Stephanie Meyer (who also drives me insane!) it is more the boys than the girls though, although quite a few of the girls loved the film but can't get into the books so I'm not sure if that's a reflection o nthe movie or just Holmes' character in general so Russell may appeal to them more...not sure yet I'll have to see how long it lasts, the prospect of another film though would definitely be welcomed!! :o

[Jennifer]

I think the girls would understand Holmes more if they saw him through Russell's eyes. And it's a very "girl power" book for sure...

Jennifer

[TygerCub]

...it is more the boys than the girls though, although quite a few of the girls loved the film but can't get into the books so I'm not sure if that's a reflection o nthe movie or just Holmes' character in general so Russell may appeal to them more...

To generalize greatly, I think girls read more between the lines than boys do, especially at that age. If the girls are trying to read RDJ into the Canon stories, they'll be disappointed at first until they've reached the Return of Sherlock Holmes set of stories. From there, Doyle was much more comfortable with the character and started showing glimpses of Holmes' humanity. Some of it was there in Adventures, but it wasn't until the Return that pieces started falling into place and the reader could get a fuller grasp of the Person behind the Detective.

BTW, I really did enjoy the movie. It was just too much fun. I saw it as a retelling for the 21st century, much like the new Star Trek. Yes, there were some serious flaws, but I'll accept some flaws in a first film as long as the second clear them up.

[TygerCub]

But the new Star Trek movie... it takes A LOT to get my husband to turn off the tv or put down a book... While it was on (bought the DVD for him for Xmas) he walked away from it.
Had I never seen a ST movie or read a ST book... it would have been really good... but Dh.... went and found his book he was reading instead. He's a HUGE fan.

I was going to say I'm surprised, but honestly, after thinking about it, there was a LOT of non-canon going on in the movie. I grew up watching the original series and credit Star Trek for turning me on to reading when I was still in grade school. Once I'd plowed through all the books about animals in the school library, there just wasn't anything that captured my attention until my Nana gave me a Star Trek novel. Then no one could get me to put a book down! :p

All that to say I'm a huge fan as well. But I really enjoyed the re-interpretation of the characters in the new Trek. While some of it was shocking (Spock kissing Uhura :eek:... well, okay, yeah!:rolleyes: You Go Girl :D). But even though there was some startling differences, it just worked... for this era. I thought it was very well done and have high hopes for the new franchise to freshen things up and put on a good show.

Ah well. The differences between us all is just the spice of life, eh? :cool:

[Jennifer]

I was going to say I'm surprised, but honestly, after thinking about it, there was a LOT of non-canon going on in the movie. I grew up watching the original series and credit Star Trek for turning me on to reading when I was still in grade school. Once I'd plowed through all the books about animals in the school library, there just wasn't anything that captured my attention until my Nana gave me a Star Trek novel. Then no one could get me to put a book down! :p

Okay, even though this will date me horribly, when the original series was on, Sat. nights it was, I fell head over 2nd-grade heels love with Chekov. I then proceeded to the library and checked out every book on Russia! So, he gets the credit for me reading voraciously on any number of subjects that took my fancy...
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

I liked the new ST movie because it was respectful of the characters and all the non-canon things were explained by the alternate universe device. From the moment Kirk was born in space I knew it wasn't going to be using OST lore, Kirk was born in Iowa and he had a brother and on and on. Yep, I was a ST geek from the age of 19 (when the show premiered) and know more than the casual watcher, but never got into the really geek status of knowing all the decks on the Enterprise and how the warp drive worked. :D:D

[Pat Floyd]

I discovered STNG when I was 57 years old. I'd never learned to enjoy TV, but here was a show with fascinating characters which reflected my values and was visually beautiful. I watched and recorded OST as well and read all the novels that were coming out--some really excellent. I haven't seen the new show but must make a point of doing so. Somewhere along the line after STNG my interest waned. The idea of conventions, costumes, and memorabilia leave me cold--and would have done so even more if I had encounted ST earlier in life. I was a very dignified teen.

[Jennifer]

I was as geeky as I could be at that age about ST. I concentrated on the episodes because by the time I was a bit older, they were shown every afternoon in reruns. When you say the film was "respectful" Alice, I think I understand. Many of the old shows that have been resurrected into movies have been treated badly. Irony is the new black, or has been for about 15 years to the point where nothing can be really funny until it is harsh and cruel. My dislike of irony is so great that when I see a film or movie that earnestly tries to represent something, and not just poke acidic fun at it, I tend to get hold of it. But we all tend to get embarrassed by that sort of display of our emotions. That's why a film like "Rudy" is on the top of the "guilty pleasures" list of ESPN's best sports movies. You won't get those toughs to say it's a good film, no, it's a guilty pleasure! Fortunately, the new ST is a great balance of respect and fabulous hipness.
Jennifer

Oh I do digress. One film that confounds me on many levels, yet gets to me in places is "Love Actually." I must first say that I've only seen this film on cable so I have not "seen" all of it! But I understand the many stories running through it. This movie is really all things to all people. There is terrifically cruel irony throughout. And there is hilarity! And then there is Andrew Lincoln. His little bit in the story blew me away with its honesty. You get that sometimes. You realize that someone you didn't know was a fabulous actor, well, darn it, he is. Like Steven Weber in "Hambuger Hill." I am sorry, I really am digressing...

[Strawberry Curls]

I'll digress right along with you, Jennifer, and say I have a tradition of pulling out "Love Actually" and watching it as I wrap Christmas presents. It is a task I have done since I was eleven and mentioned that I loved to wrap presents. Big mistake, I was given all the family presents to wrap, except my gifts, which were given to me wrapped but I was to put on the bows. Fast forward 50 years and I'm not so enthusiastic about wrapping Christmas presents. It was getting to the point I felt like I was a prisoner facing another day at hard labor. Then I saw this movie on DVD, my brother let me borrow it as he knew I liked all thing British. It was love at first watch, I had to own it and I purchased my own copy and start watching it when I wrapped. It is the prefect movie for that, as the music is such an integral part of the story I can watch, and wrap and just enjoy the music, and by the time the last montage is on the screen and the music is soaring I'm in such a Christmas mood and no longer grumbing about wrapping gifts. OK, end of digressing. :)

[Jennifer]

I'll digress right along with you, Jennifer, and say I have a tradition of pulling out "Love Actually" and watching it as I wrap Christmas presents. ... It is the prefect movie for that, as the music is such an integral part of the story I can watch, and wrap and just enjoy the music, and by the time the last montage is on the screen and the music is soaring I'm in such a Christmas mood and no longer grumbing about wrapping gifts. OK, end of digressing. :)

Alice, I forgot to mention how much the music adds to my dear dear Andrew Lincoln's bit! I went and got Dido's cd with that song, that really haunting song that goes with his quick exit as Juliet realizes that he is in love with her. So many good songs...
Jennifer
PS again, but isn't it odd that we think of Love Actually as a great Christmas movie? I know it's set at Christmas time but I always get caught up in the romance story-lines and completely sublimate the Christmas countdown and that (sorry) really irritating Bill Nighy story. I do love him in "Hitchhiker's Guide." Just try to explain "Slartibartfast" to your child...

[Davina]

I've got to agree with all the love for the new Star Trek movie. It was very well done and the alternate universe helps take the WTH out of all the non-cannon things, such as the enterpise not being built in space etc

But they did such a great job with the characters. I couldn't stop grinning everytime Karl Urban went off on a McCoy rant :)