***The Future of the VBC***

[jtb1951]

But first, a word from our sponsor:

Dear friends,

Five years is an eternity on the Internet, and online life has changed enormously since the day I sought out Vicki to organize and run what we ended up calling the Virtual Book Club. The VBC has been a powerful tool for friendship and ideas, and I am more grateful than I can express for those of you who have participated, and especially for those who have been willing to lend a hand.

Now I, and the group's discussion leaders, would like some feedback on where we should go from here. The strength of the format we've been using has been that it allows room for everything from a Pirate King discussion to favorite quotes to organizing meet-ups. But I suspect that the format's weakness lies in that same ease of sprawl. And it's hard to entice new readers without some sense of focus.

I'll let John tell you what we're asking, and thinking. I just wanted you to know that I am grateful, and honored, that so many of you have gathered together around my fiction, making it--and hence me--a touch more real.

--Laurie


Dear VBC members,

On June 1st, 2007 the Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club opened its virtual doors for the first time (some of you have been here since day 1!) and a wonderful new community took root. The past 4 1/2+ years have seen virtual (and real-world) friendships bloom, enthusiastic monthly book (LRK, and others) discussions engaged in, book-love dispensed, member's good times/hard times shared and supported, wide-ranging general discussions covering almost any topic you could think of, and much, much more. And through it all the VBC retained a civility and respect for each other unique among my online experiences. Thank you and congratulations to all of our participating members (and our many lurkers, as well!)

That being said, it has become apparent to Laurie (who has initiated this message) and Vicki, Pat and me (and probably many, if not all of you, as well) that the VBC in its present incarnation has run the good race and fought the good fight. It has been suggested that a change of forum format/host site/other? might serve to revivify our community. Vicki is looking into other host options; maybe an extant site like Goodreads would be sufficient. The following links are examples of different forums currently active on Goodreads: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/4862.Books_on_the_Nightstand, and http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/4170.The_Sword_and_Laser.

The crux of the matter is this: what do you the members want to see out of a reconstituted VBC? Do we pare down our community to a discussion group on an existing venue; do we look to revamp our existing format on a different host platform; do we close the virtual doors and call it a day? Instead of a book discussion for February this will be our topic of discussion: The Future of the Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club. All thoughts and comments will be most appreciated and carefully considered, and we will see where it all takes us! Thank you for your attention, and we look forward to your responses.

John (on behalf of Laurie, Vicki & Pat).

[AmyLizzie]

Nooooo don't call it a day! I really love the chat topics and having somewhere to go to post random thoughts and talk to like minded people about them. I think the discussions have lost a bit of their pull and maybe a revamp of the existing format for that would be a good idea but I do think that the ability to 'chat' is the main reason a lot of people come here. It's rare, on the internet, that you can go to a forum where the people are so nice and accomodating and willing to share ideas. I think it would be terrible to lose what you have built so far. But yes, I agree that some sort of revamp is required but I would hate to lose all the friends I have made here. :)

[AmyLizzie]

Having just looked at the Goodreads groups, I think a format like that would be a really good idea. Easy to navigate, focused, but also allowing a good degree of freedom. Nice.

[Millie]

I feel so strongly about this that I might just let my sausages burn! Please don't close the doors! I know I've been a sporadic poster here lately, but you have all been such an amazing support to me over (especially) the past five months while Paul has been so ill. I would hate to see the group break up, even though so many of us are over on facebook. You're right, a revamp is in order, and when I have time - I really *do* have sausages on the stovetop! - I'll check out the goodreads site. Please don't close down, PLEASE!!!

[Jennifer]

I don't think it's a matter of the VBC having run its course as much as we've lost a central thread. We all started because we loved LRK's books and were more than willing to read one a month and then many books that went along with those original books. I remember well the fun we had reading "Kim" when we had reached "The Game" in the Russell/Holmes series. It was so much fun! It seems we need to find another unifying thread or threads. Is this how "Goodreads" does it? We all seem to like each other pretty well, get along mostly, and have interest in each other's lives so it would seem a terrible waste to let this community go.
Best regards,
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

Goodreads allows for the "sprawl" as well.

Truth is, I'm not a "book of the month" reader of any kind and author boards/websites have become known as "cliques" online. I still remember the collapse of the Suzanne Brockmann bulletin board... to say it was ugly was the understatement and it morphed into 2 private boards that to are sputtering. People that are not "fans" in the traditional sense for whatever reason seem to be happier if they are using another venue to be part of a group surrounding an author.

If you want to meet over at goodreads it would be an option. It does allow for more of this kind of set up. Facebook is not. Where I live, our "extra's", our boys, the keeping of RL and virtual completely separate... does not allow for a venue like facebook. Truth is, no one in RL knows where to find me online... actually the most I'll admit at any time is "yes, I do play online" but never where or under what name and I have no plans to change it.

[vicki]

I think the Goodreads discussion tools are a lot more robust than FB's, and there could be some advantages in being part of a larger bookish ecosystem. We wouldn't have as many bells or whistles over there, but the software is hosted and maintained by goodreads, which makes it technologically much easier to administer. Goodreads also permits registration via FB, twitter, and google, which lowers the barrier for entry to the community, and reduces the silo-effect of native-only registration. No community platform is going to be perfect, but those would be some advantages of the goodreads platform.

But it anyone has other platform suggestions, feel free to post them.

[Millie]

which lowers the barrier for entry to the community, and reduces the silo-effect of native-only registration.

"Blah blah blah Rover" (love me some Far Side!)

Seriously, Vicki, as long as there's a student at Hogwarts who wants to be taught, I'll teach them. Or, in other words, if you build it, they will come. Or, in *more* other words, as long as we're not disbanded I don't mind where we are!!:)

[Millie]

PND, bullying, changing schools, first communion, teething, speech delays, autism, floods, first words, car accidents, pneumonia, heart failure, VAD, waiting list, prayer circles...

These are just some of the events of my life over the past four years that the VBC has helped celebrate, supported, encouraged, prayed for, sent care packages, emailed, facebooked, whatever was needed and could be virtually supplied. I hadn't quite realised how important the VBC has been in my life until there was mention of disbanding.

So, maybe now is a good time to say a huge and heartfelt THANK YOU LAURIE for bringing us all together!

[vicki]

Oh, sorry! I lapsed into techno-babble. *Self-thwaps*

All that just means that when people come upon a new site or community, they look to see how they can join, and--at least in the past couple of years--people have become much more willing to join if they *don't* have to create another account and memorize another password, etc. Many people look for a way to log-in through one of their main accounts (usually FB, but also twitter and google). If they can, they are more willing to say, "Cool--I'm in!" and just hit the "Log in with Facebook" button (or twitter or google). That makes it easier to gain new members, which is good for any community to do.

I'm going to lurk a bit in the two goodreads groups linked above and maybe test the waters a bit to see how it works. If the consensus is that it might suit our needs, we can set up a test forum of sorts so we can kick the tires and get some hands-on experience with the platform.

[vicki]

We x-posted. Sending hugs: ((((Millie)))) And I'll second the thanks to Our Fearless Leader.

[farmwifetwo]

Oh, sorry! I lapsed into techno-babble. *Self-thwaps*

All that just means that when people come upon a new site or community, they look to see how they can join, and--at least in the past couple of years--people have become much more willing to join if they *don't* have to create another account and memorize another password, etc. Many people look for a way to log-in through one of their main accounts (usually FB, but also twitter and google). If they can, they are more willing to say, "Cool--I'm in!" and just hit the "Log in with Facebook" button (or twitter or google). That makes it easier to gain new members, which is good for any community to do.

I'm going to lurk a bit in the two goodreads groups linked above and maybe test the waters a bit to see how it works. If the consensus is that it might suit our needs, we can set up a test forum of sorts so we can kick the tires and get some hands-on experience with the platform.

They're easy to follow. You can go into the page directly or download daily, weekly etc to your email. That was something I asked you about this board quite sometime ago and this one can't do. So you don't have to log in all the time, just check your email and decide if you are interested in joining the thread. I have a "friend" on goodreads who set up her own group to manage all the challenges she had joined. You can use it for anything.

[LaideeMarjorie]

I think the possible closing of the VBC is a very sad thing. There is nothing like it and there is nothing that can replace its sense of community. It's not just about the books, which is why throwing it over to a place on Goodreads would not be the same. It's about the people. When I talk to other authors about creating a sense of community among readers, I always point them to the VBC as a shining example.

Thanks,
Marjorie (who doesn't alway post, but often lurks)

[tangential1]

I'm going to lurk a bit in the two goodreads groups linked above and maybe test the waters a bit to see how it works. If the consensus is that it might suit our needs, we can set up a test forum of sorts so we can kick the tires and get some hands-on experience with the platform.

Out of curiosity after Laurie messaged me, I went to see what it would take to set up a new VBC group on Goodreads. Yeah, like two seconds to get us a basic page setup. And then we can add in our same kind of topic-ish discussion threads.

I was also a little taken aback to hear that the VBC was potentially shutting down, but thinking more on it, I rather like the idea of moving onto another site that I visit regularly. (Not that I wasn't a regular visitor here, but I've definitely been absent lately...the new job has been sapping the time I would usually designate to online stuff and it's gotten harder lately to keep up on multiple websites.)

The groups on goodreads essentially function exactly like our current boards. The discussion topics can be organized. There is no restriction on what we can talk about in our discussion topics. I think the only big difference that comes to mind is that we don't have as much control over who can be in our group. Right now, Vicki has the ability to banish people if they are spammers or completely out of line or whatever. Not that she's really had to do that that I know of (outside of the occasional spammers), but the ability is there. I'm not sure how that would work in Goodreads groups. We could attempt a bit more gatekeeping (you do have to request acceptance into a group), but that's kind of a sour idea.

But yeah, I'm rather liking the idea of giving it a try anyway. There's nothing to say we have to stick with a Goodreads group if everyone decides it's not something they like.

I think the possible closing of the VBC is a very sad thing. There is nothing like it and there is nothing that can replace its sense of community. It's not just about the books, which is why throwing it over to a place on Goodreads would not be the same. It's about the people. When I talk to other authors about creating a sense of community among readers, I always point them to the VBC as a shining example.

Thanks,
Marjorie (who doesn't alway post, but often lurks)

Hey Margorie :) I agree that this group is so much more about the books now...but it kind of started out as being about the books. I can't really see that moving the group to a bookish home-site will change our community...unless some of us refuse to move maybe and we lose people?

[Strawberry Curls]

I agree that this group is so much more about the books now...but it kind of started out as being about the books. I can't really see that moving the group to a bookish home-site will change our community...unless some of us refuse to move maybe and we lose people?Erin, I have to respectfully disagree. As one of the original members, joining on the first day, this site was not about books, or even Laurie's books, but a place for fans of Laurie's books to gather and find each other. The moment the "Chit Chat" and the "What are you reading today" threads opened people bonded, they didn't always talk books, they shared their lives and their interests. Before the "What are you reading" thread became mostly about non-fiction I got so many wonderful recommendations of series and authors I'm still reading. The "Meet up" thread allowed many of us to make plans to meet at B'Con and such, and "the Gallery" allowed us to share pictures of events and almost anything we wanted to share. Many of us posted reports of classes, trips, or book signs we attended and on and on. I think a general love of well-written books brought us together and kept many of us here all these years.

I've tried to keep my prejudice to myself since the first suggestion of moving to Goodreads, but since I'm spouting on now I guess I'll give my opinion, and it is purely my opinion. I detest Goodreads. Every time I've gone on the site (and I have not one, not two, but three accounts) I get so frustrated at it's miasma (to me) of pages and forums and whatever (I can never find what I'm looking for over there) I leave the site swearing never to return. I usually try again 6 months or so later and have then forgotten my user-name and password and three times I've created accounts, hence the three accounts.

With the VBC closed we will lose the history we have created here. The pictures, the book discussions and all the rest. Will we be able to send a private message to someone, thus allowing contact without giving out our email address if that isn't something we want to do? We will lose all the links that I use daily to pop over to Mutterings, Laurie's FB page, Twitter and the like. Heck the twitter feed on the right side of the home page will disappear.

I suspect this may be a matter of money, and if so, I can understand not wanting to shell out bucks every month for this site when the community has connected, when the fandom has been revived by four books in a row (counting GARM). I can accept that and say, so be it. I just don't know if I can force myself over to Goodreads. Currently I visit the VBC three or four times a day and then link over to other sites from here. I will miss that, and all the friends I have made here, but change is inevitable and although I don't like it, I can accept it. I do stand with you, Marjorie, there is nothing like the VBC and nothing can replace it.

[tangential1]

I detest Goodreads. Every time I've gone on the site (and I have not one, not two, but three accounts) I get so frustrated at it's miasma (to me) of pages and forums and whatever (I can never find what I'm looking for over there) I leave the site swearing never to return.

Totally respect your opinion, Alice! I have to say, I am a tad biased in favor of Goodreads. Doing LRK stuff there had me getting fairly well acquainted with the site. I've got a lot of friends there, but I tend not to bother with most of the forums and groups generally (one well rounded online forum is enough for me!).

I am having a hard time really wrapping my head around how things would change. Goodreads has a lot of similar functionality to the boards we use, though the formatting is a little different, so I can see it working fine. But then, completely shifting the focus of the site could definitely deter from the atmosphere and community feeling of the group. I feel like the only real way to know would be to give it a test run, like Vicki said. But if some really hate the site and move away from the group because of it (and I totally get that...sometimes how things are set up just don't jive...personally, I'm not a huge fan of Twitter), that'd really be sad.

I think it really all comes down to what the real motivation for the move is for me. If it's just a move for the sake of a change, I don't know that it'd necessarily be worth it. If there are more pressing considerations (such as those Alice pointed to), then maybe the change wouldn't be something impossible to put up with.

[Lenore]

I'm with Alice, here.

[Jennifer]

I like that we are separate from anything else as well and if it is about money, there's not much I can do or say to stop the tide but I like our own little corner. I. too, get lost in those sites that have so many forums and whatnot. I force myself to go on to Ravelry but I am never sure of the organization of the site. I feel anonymous there too. Here, it's like walking into "Cheers" and hearing at least a couple of people holler "Norm!"
Jennifer

[farmwifetwo]

Moving my bookshelves to goodreads was a education in "how to use the site". IMO they've improved it a lot since and it's best feature is keeping your pages and the groups separate.

Also, you can make the group "closed" and have to be logged in to see it. But LRK's VBC is not "closed" and one should always remember the lurkers. Many, many people have signed into this site and never posted. Many, many other's flit by it and again never sign in at all but read what is here. So, having an open group at goodreads would not change that at all. I have nosed around many of the groups debating joining them and reading the various threads, seeing who's a member and if we have books in common, and seeing how often the board is used. If you wish to turn it into a "clique" you can close it and request a 'by invitation' that some groups are.

The groups are easy to find. You simply go into your page... actually it's Laurie's I use that's tacked into my fav's.... click on groups at the top of the page... and there's a list of them all. Put your request in the search engine and off you go. Or, on your home page once you've become a member of the group, scroll down to the bottom of your page and it will be listed there. Click on it and you're in.

http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/1911280-farmwifetwo I have 4 of them at the moment I'm technically a member of and truthfully, I haven't been in any of them in quite some time. Anyone is welcome to scroll down the page and click on them to see what they are about.

[SCWillson]

I had not intended to comment on this issue but I've reconsidered.

I have greatly enjoyed interacting with the people here in the VBC. Since I've joined I feel many of you have become friends and have helped me through both difficult times as well as successes; including the suicide of my best friend 11 months ago, my one (and only) attempt to write fan fiction which I posted at Letters of Mary, and my recent weight loss. I would be happy to continue those relationships on another website if that is the direction that the group takes in the future. I just regret that I live so far from any of you that ever meeting in person is well nigh impossible.

That having been said (and I will be blunt here) I am indifferent as to whether this group retains any connection to Laurie King or not. The Language of Bees and The God of the Hive were so disappointing I never even bothered to purchase The Pirate King. I'd like to see her go back to writing stand alone novels or Kate Martinelli stories because I think she's lost interest in Russell and Holmes and was focusing on them only because those were her best sellers. Mary Russell and LRK's version of Sherlock Holmes are two of my favorite fictional characters, but I feel the earlier books were the story of Mary's coming of age and the mystery of her background which essentially ended with Locked Rooms. Laurie is a very nice lady but I don't see any reason for this group to continue in her orbit.

[tangential1]

I like that we are separate from anything else as well and if it is about money, there's not much I can do or say to stop the tide but I like our own little corner. I. too, get lost in those sites that have so many forums and whatnot. I force myself to go on to Ravelry but I am never sure of the organization of the site. I feel anonymous there too. Here, it's like walking into "Cheers" and hearing at least a couple of people holler "Norm!"
Jennifer

I feel like for any forum you get into you kind of have to find your niche and make friends. Find people with common opinions and recognize their screen names and chat. I have a good handful of friendships that really grew on Ravelry just like I have here and like I'm starting to develop on Goodreads (I have a Goodreads friend who is, ironically, named Mary Russell and has very similar book tastes. I instantly felt I had to message her :))

I felt fairly well accosted for my dissenting opinions here when I first started posting. I remember being practically the only person in the group who liked <i>The Handmaiden's Tale</i> when we read that forever ago, and there was very vociferous response to anything positive I had to say about it. Not that I knew it at the time, but I was the youngest person posting for a while and I didn't have my debating/discussion skills yet (still working on those). It was daunting. Only by sticking around did that "Cheers" vibe start to develop; and that's really the same for any group/forum you start to chat with.

We've all been posting and picking apart each others opinions for so long that there's a much deeper sense of respect and understanding than there was initially. When Alice disagrees with me, it no longer hurts my feelings ;)

[Jennifer]

Now I feel like I need to go back and read the discussion around the "Handmaid's Tale." I remember wondering if anyone were going to pick up on some of the deeper themes, some very controversial and I was a bit relieved when no one did because I knew I'd be on the wrong side of "right" and would get blown out of the water. I felt the same way after the 2008 elections. It took a determined effort to come back to the VBC. But a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Everyone has had wounds to lick and bigger things have happened to each of us and most of us have rallied round and shown support. That you stuck around, Erin, I hope, was its own reward. I didn't ever feel negatively toward you and hope I didn't offend you at any time. The tone of a written discussion can sometimes get lost, sometimes get skewed. And sometimes, it can just be obnoxious, I know. But I do value you as a fellow VBC member!
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

When Alice disagrees with me, it no longer hurts my feelings ;)I certainly hope not, as that is never my intent. I always make a point of stating that what I'm saying is just my opinion and then I try to state my reasons for that opinion. It is never my intention to hurt the feelings of anyone.

[112233]

I will be sad and a bit lonely if the VBC is shut down. The VBC is the first site I visit every day. I rarely post because my posts seem inane when I read them later. (MCI, I’m afraid) I am deeply fond of all you bright, literate and civilized people who do post. I enjoy and admire Laurie as a person.
Several years ago there were so many interesting book and author recommendations that I started a TBR list document on Word. Then, as I began to read the books, I was too lazy to start a separate list so decided to just color code my opinions. That combined list now takes up 10 pages. Glaucoma and a touch of Macular Degeneration make audiobooks more and more necessary. Their wonderful readers keep me entertained while I go about the necessary but dull routines of daily living or occasional insomnia.
I have tried to visit Goodreads but find myself lost in a wilderness. I got my first computer 12 years ago when I was 76. It’s like learning a new foreign language, easy when one is young, difficult after maturity. I’ll never be able to do more than the most basic. But what fun!!
I agree with SCWilson that Laurie needs to be freed by the publishers to write what LAURIE wants to write. I have all her books in print AND on cassette, CD or Ipod. I will buy whatever she creates.

[Jennifer]

An unexpected good thing that has come of contemplating the end of the VBC is that we are all "coming clean!" I do appreciate 112233's comments and I never realized how many of you lurk! I wish I'd talked less and you all had talked more....
Jennifer

[AmyLizzie]

An unexpected good thing that has come of contemplating the end of the VBC is that we are all "coming clean!" I do appreciate 112233's comments and I never realized how many of you lurk! I wish I'd talked less and you all had talked more....
Jennifer

I agree :)

[AmyLizzie]

Just to clarify, I meant I wish I'd talked less - not Jen!! Sorry :D Plank...

[MaryL]

I, too, am one of the "lurkers who occasionally post"-shyness and, as with 112233, a feeling that my post is inane-or at least doesn't sound as nice as it did in my head. I have tried to "jump-start" some discussions with questions and comments but that usually didn't work either.

Anyway-I would be very sorry to see the VBC close.
1. The format is straightforward, I can find the forum I want by just scrolling down and looking-I LIKE tabular forms. I went over to the Goodreads site and backed out almost immediately-it was complicated and intimidating. I am NOT a Luddite, but that site spooked me.

2. I have found this community to be well read, articulate, fun to discuss things with, without drama. Sure, we've had our personal lives to comfort, console and congratulate, but no drama in the book discussions, in great part thenaks to the moderaters and the initial respectful tone carried on by all. I would hate to lose that. I appreciate the variety of opinions and life circumstances behind them.

3. All that said I guess the real reason this discussion is on the board is because lately nothing else HAS been on the Board. We seem to have lost the interest of a lot of long time members-or at least they no longer post. Maybe we shoud discuss that ?

[farmwifetwo]

Without drama.... Well.... I'm going to wade in...

I do have to admit I really don't like the "pro" religion posts. It turned me off enough this past fall that if I wasn't for the posts to see how Millie's Dh was doing - where most of the religious stuff was - I had everything cleaned out and was leaving. I admit to being around at the moment out of winter boredom mostly and the fact it's too easy when you are alone a lot of the time, to wander the web. I have cut back considerably the time I spend on the web, the places I go, the blogs on my reader.... and truth is I need to do more.

It's not up to others to post so that lurkers can be entertained. Yes, I lurk in many places, and use my Google Reader or email to do so. Should those places - like this one - close due to my non-involvement then I move on. Moving over to goodreads will allow me to lurk or comment if I choose with feed to my email or post. Not moving, closing entirely, is a viable choice IMO.

As Laurie says, 5yrs is an eternity on the web and at the end of the day it keeps me entertained. I can find someplace else to lurk or not.

[MaryL]

By "Drama" I meant the hateful, nasty, mean posts I've seen on other sites. Also the people who write things just to stir stuff up. I like that we don't have to swear like a 12 year old fangirl that (breathless voice!) "LRK-is-the BEST-writer-EVER!!!!", we can agree, agree to disagree, find things we like and don't like without the virtual knives coming out.

What I do think is the real point of this month's topic: Are we just tired of the VBC? Is there anything that has stopped each of us from participating? Have the original leaders lost interest, moved on to other venues? Are the newer folks hesitant to post? Does anybody care? Is anybody there? (courtesy of J. Adams, 1776)

[Donna]

Wow! The VBC is thinking of ending!?! Unthinkable!!!

I admit I've gotten busy with life but that doesn't mean I've no interest nor haven't tried to keep up at least with reading the posts... but to think that I wouldn't get to talk to any of you on this site... Noooooooo, that couldn't happen; could it?

Millie and Paul still cross my mind frequently - I wonder how he's doing... Sheri is there with her no nonsense views...
I couldn't think of not hearing from Curls (and occasionally teasing ***grin***)
And I could go on... with Pat's leadership, John's wise comments, Jennifer's questions, MaryL's interesting statements, Steve's provocative but interesting bits.... I'd end up with putting down the entire membership listing because each of you have contributed so positively; unexpected and delightful friendships each one.

We have shared so much of each other's lives and that is not a small thing. We all have a love of reading, in particular Laurie's writing. I find myself picking up BEEK just to savor sentences or admire the deft use of a word here or a thought painted in sparse but amazing colors there... a moment of 'light reading' that enriches my life and I'm sure your's too.

But it comes down to dollars... is that it? The publishers want to make sure these 'advertising' greenbacks are justified by the numbers? Well, I suppose we can find ways to inform, link, and in general advertise this site - it truly is one of the best of it's kind out there.

Very few authors have crafted anything more than a basic informational page or two and none that I know of have such extensive forums where readers can meet and chat with each other as individual people and not just readers of that author. Yes, we get a wide range of personalities, interests, and perspectives - a delicious flavoring of opinions, ideas and emotions. Even the comments that rub a bit are grist for thought for that day... for me anyway. I love hearing from you all and thinking about what you've said. Each of you contribute to my understanding and appreciation of not only Laurie's work but a wide range of topics. To have that - you - disappear would be a grievous loss indeed.

If it means I need to post a bit more often to keep the stats up to where the money people are happy.... I could do that. They like concrete evidence - lurking doesn't count since it's unseen and unidentified. However those who read are there and should not be forgotten. I know the 'hits' on this site are counted - sounds as if those numbers are down... Hmmm... Do we need to do more to help those who would be interested find us?... To make sure we visit frequently - keeping the numbers up?

It is also true that an author's work is done far more slowly than we readers can read. When this site began there were several LRK books that members could read and discuss with great enthusiasm but now they've been read and discussed... and some rediscussed... and we are waiting for the next one... and discussing other books in the meantime... Well, no wonder the level of participation has dropped a bit... anyone coming to this site as a new LRK reader has such a rich experience ahead of them just reading all the old threads - I'm a bit envious of that kind of 'fresh excitement'. The rest of us have read, reread, discussed and commented... still enjoy but find we are repeating ourselves so try not to bore the rest of you. It makes sense to try to broaden out the reading suggestions each month since the limited list of our author's work has been covered but frankly the widening range of reading material - for me anyway - is of lessening interest since it is moving farther and farther away from where we all started - Laurie's work. It is also true that authors have limits - their views, life experiences, opinions and beliefs are contained in who they are... This site has explored some of that but really not in depth.

Perhaps politeness keeps us from talking in depth about things that touch on politics, religion or other sensitive subjects - we try to say what we think but do so without offending; try not to go 'overboard' with our beliefs and ideas. That means we don't really challenge the author (or each other) with 'what do you really think, believe, understand, etc. nor write lengthy 'defenses' or 'apologetics' of those things... Which also means we tend stay away from 'criticism' in general.

This site appreciates each other's contributions and tries to affirm each other - people who are of immense value (something I truly believe) - and give a safe place for each of us to share ourselves. We try to come to the support of those who express needs, to affirm even when disagreeing, to point each other to what would 'build up' rather than 'tear down'. I love listening to and talking with such friends. But it also means that we shy away from grappling with the 'tough' things or only do so on the surface.

For example; Russell studies theology and yet rarely discusses God. Who is He (She?), how is Russell's life influenced by knowing God - or is it?. But that isn't really part of the stories... and even with the few references to the topic in MREG we haven't looked at Margery Childe's comment: "I thought I was doing God's will... I thought I knew God's will. I thought, even, that there were times when He talked with me..." Does God talk to individuals? Does that matter to any of us? Is God for real?...

Would taking on such sensitive topics at the risk of offending - though that certainly wouldn't be any of our intentions - would that help revitalize this site? It might 'do us in' for sure but it also might find us having to think through what we believe, what we think really matters, what Laurie - through Russell or any of her other characters - wants to say about life and why we exist. And it might challenge our author as well; to discuss why she has her characters saying or behaving as they do. We've certainly seen very negative sides of religious beliefs and practices in the Kanon; is there another side that hasn't been mentioned but is worth discussing? Hmmm... just a thought.

It might be that the VBC will continue to chat about Laurie's next book when the next book comes out but find we've less to discuss during the 'in-between' times. Doesn't sound as if the $$$ people will be happy about that. What will be satisfactory? Can the site at least exist as archives?

I, for one, vote to keep VBC in tact and as it is... Is that possible?

[tangential1]

Book discussions are so tricky, it seems. Have you ever noticed that the most discussed books are the ones where there's a split acceptance, half the readers absolutely love and half absolutely hate? You seemingly need that dichotomy to really get the back-and-forth going. When everyone universally loves a book there's less to talk about. Same when everyone hates a book. But the book has to be one that everyone agrees is something they really really want to read.

All my RL bookclubs have kind of disintegrated over time because everyone lost interest in the reading aspect after a while. Now we just kind of meet up once a month for food and chatting instead ;)

Perhaps we need a jumpstart on what we're reading or something, rather than on how we're discussing. I haven't been super interested in the selections of late. (Partly because I haven't had much time to even lurk here much, and partly because I've been enthralled with new-to-me young adult fantasy that's been eating all my attention.) But I have several books that I totally fell in love with because we read them here. Like Dana Stabenow's Kate Shugak series that I would most likely have absolutely never have found on my own. And I actually started reading some non-fiction after we read Testament of Youth a few years ago. And I know so many of you totally fell for Louis Penny.

[annie]

All I can say is that I like this as it is. I am grateful to Ms. King for hosting it, and to those members who give their time & expertise to keep it going.
Sheri dragged me over to Goodreads and I love their shelf system to keep track of my books, but the site is huge and I can't quite get the sprawl of it.
I have greatly enjoyed many of our discussions, and am, like others, baffled by what books trigger our discussions and those that stall.
If this was to be a smaller site, I like "what we are reading now"; "book of the month" and some of the odd things that surface.
Posters here are an erudite & courteous bunch which distinguishes them from other forums!
I am not in a position to offer any help at the moment; and of course the decision has to be with those who put the time, effort & money into the board. My thanks to them, whatever the outcome.

[Lenore]

All I can say is that I like this as it is.

. . .

I am not in a position to offer any help at the moment; and of course the decision has to be with those who put the time, effort & money into the board. My thanks to them, whatever the outcome.

I'm with you, Annie.

[AmyLizzie]

I do have to admit I really don't like the "pro" religion posts. It turned me off enough this past fall that if I wasn't for the posts to see how Millie's Dh was doing - where most of the religious stuff was - I had everything cleaned out and was leaving.

It's not up to others to post so that lurkers can be entertained. Yes, I lurk in many places, and use my Google Reader or email to do so. Should those places - like this one - close due to my non-involvement then I move on. Moving over to goodreads will allow me to lurk or comment if I choose with feed to my email or post. Not moving, closing entirely, is a viable choice IMO.

I'm not religious either but I think that you have to live and let live to an extent, if it bothers you don't read it. What one person believes is their business and although I may not agree with their view, it doesn't offend me enough to want to leave completly. Now inciting hatred and violence due to religious beliefs - yes, I would leave but I highly doubt anyone here would encourage such behaviour. I like our group because of our differences and the way we feel we can speak of them to each other without fear of ridicule or hatred. I really have never read a post here that I felt offended by, or felt I was unable to respond to in a mature fashion.

I also agree that, as a group, we are not hear to provide entertainment to those who don't post, after all if we all lurked there would be no group and this discussion wouldn't be happening! I think, if there are more lurkers than posters, then a re-organisation of what we read and how we discuss would be the answer, rather than disbanding completly. I have to admit that I haven't been particularly interested in some of the books that have been discussed recently, so maybe if we started with some well-known classics that everyone is likely to have heard of, we could maybe kick start some discussions again and then become more selective as people gain the confidence to post their opinions and ideas. I feel that confidence with their opinions is stopping some people posting and I am by no means the most intelligent person here but I believe this group has fostered a feeling of nurturing new posters and allowing different opinions to flourish. I think moving to goodreads would be a bad idea as some of us would naturally not follow across, re-organising, archiving and general decluttering and 'sparkling' up of what we already have is, I think, the way forward.

[annie]

I too, feel "safe" here.

[laurierking]

Just to comment on the conversation.

A couple of you speculated about the cost. No, the publishers don't pay for anything of this sort, not for me anyway: I do. Which is fine, and small enough when it comes to the site's yearly subscription. The real problem lies in the cost of time.

I can't afford the time to run the VBC myself. I am currently fighting hard to free up time to write, and failing. My usual fallbacks of assistance aren't available, for various reasons, which means I'll probably have to reduce the pre-publication fun and games I might have done for Garment of Shadows in September. I'm even thinking of telling my publisher I can't tour for the book.

I am not complaining, I hope you understand--I am overjoyed that Bantam continues to publish my books, and that you all continue to buy them. But realistically, I have to have more hours in the week to put words on a page.

So it's time for a hard look at all the extras in my life, the VBC being one of those. I love this community. I set it up, Vicki got it running, and you all gave it life. I love its past, and I love its potential.

But the number of people active on the site has been steadily declining for the past year or two. Something about the VBC isn't catching the imagination--isn't meeting the needs--of people who have been here in the past, or of new people. The purpose of this month's discussion is to see if we can figure out why, and then figure out what to do about it.

I do not want to close this site. And judging by several comments, shifting to Goodreads isn't a great alternative. But just letting it go as it has been is clearly not an option.

So maybe some specific questions:

1. Volunteers. Pat and John (and Vicki of course!) are currently the head honchos, but any volunteer job brings the threat of burnout. How can we encourage volunteers without resorting to the hand-on-the-collar technique?

2. Outreach. Any thoughts on bringing new people in?

3. Discussion topics. I write, with luck, a book a year. What do we do with the other eleven months? Few of my writer-as-reader picks have been great successes, but some of those voted on by the general membership were not a lot better. Is a month too short a time? Do you want to repeat the LRK titles more often? Approach one from a different point of view--such as pairing The Game with Kim, Justice Hall with Testament of Youth, Pirate King with a 1920s film?

4. Have you any suggestions as to the friendly accessibility of the site as it stands? Personally, I'd like to see the colors change and the number of topic discussion boxes on the home page reduced. Any ways in which you think a newcomer's experience might be made easier or more exciting?

Again, I want to make clear that I appreciate all of you who have participated in the VBC community over the years, both virtually and in person at conferences and events. It is enormously supportive, to know that the work I do matters to people.

I simply want to offer some support in return, through the forum that has come to be the center of our little community.

Thanks again for your time, and I look forward to seeing what you have to suggest.

Laurie

[vicki]

A platform that's easier to administer and more connectable to social networks is pretty important, I think. Goodreads is one such option, but not the only one. I still think it has potential, especially as participation in Goodreads groups doesn't really require that you use Goodreads generally. But there are other possibilities, and I'll post about some options below in the thread.

When we started out, there weren't that many software options for starting a community on the web. Vbulletin was the best by far, and it's still very good, particularly if you have a large forum. But the administration is pretty complex, and it's hard to change the look or feel of it without a developer, which has frustrated me, as I want to be able to tweak and change things, and maybe try some cool new stuff from time to time. And vbulletin developers aren't exactly swinging from the rafters, as it's a proprietary technology with a very small, fairly insular community.

A lot of different options are available now that weren't around a few years ago, fortunately. And some of these would make sharing of administrative duties easier. Vbulletin limits what moderators and super-moderators can do, and even the process for changing that is a pain in the neck. And if you do get it changed, then the learning curve is pretty steep, which makes leadership participation more difficult than it should be. I think we need something simple enough for more people to participate in running the joint.

And something more easily connectable to social networks is important too. That would allow us to still have "a room of our own," so to speak, but would make it easier for people to join the community, as they could use their facebook, twitter, or google logins. That could also make it easier for those on facebook and other social networks to get the word out about stuff going on in the VBC (by having "share" buttons on the VBC), which is important to keep a flow of new members coming in.

No platform is perfect, but I think there are a lot of options now that would be a better fit for the VBC and offer a lot of advantages going forward.

[KarenB]

I haven't thrown in my 2 cents as I was kind of waiting to see where it all shook out. Any change tends to be greeted with "Ack! Change! NOOOOO!" It's just human nature. However, having been through some format changes with other groups I'm involved in I can say that once the change is done and the complaining is over, pretty much everyone adapts nicely to it and then several months down the line starts liking stuff about the new place. It sounds like Laurie is overwhelmed and unable to run this and, as her fans, we need to support and understand that. A platform that would allow easier administrative interface would be great as more people could be involved lessening the workload for any one person. I don't know enough about any possible platforms to be able to suggest any, but I would put myself out there as one who is willing to learn and support wherever it is we end up.

[Jennifer]

As one of those people who doesn't react well to change, I will say that the more information I am given, the better I can adapt. We have been talking in generalities about what would change, how it would work. When "Goodreads" has come up, I have been one of those who said "Oh no, not that!" Are we talking about attaching ourselves to "Goodreads?" Please, no one come on and tell me how easy it is to use and start detailing directions. If that's what we are talking about, then I will hold my nose and learn to use it! I just want the blanks filled in. And I understand if no definite plans are currently available, I can wait. I would also be amenable to helping somehow. My current skill level is low but I am a good learner.
Jennifer

[Millie]

I honestly don't mind where we end up as long as we're not disbanded.
Right now I'm not in a position to help out, but hopefully within the next 6-12 months I will be.

[vicki]

Just as an experiment, let's get a few trial spots where we can peek in and see what's things would look like, what kinds of bells and whistles are available. If things look promising in a particular place, we can go in and kick the tires a bit to see how we like it as a new spot for ye olde electronic yurt.

I've got a few testing areas in the works and will start posting links here later today. If any of you have suggestions for platforms for testing, just post here or send me a message.

[annie]

Vicki, I don't know what you mean, but will eagerly follow links! For the next month or so, I am frantically busy (moving into our own new build where nothing is currently functioning except our sense of humour and that is frayed!) but I will check in from time to time.
Thank you so much for all that you are doing.

[Meredith47]

My two cents here, or perhaps 1.75.
It has been my firm resolve to read all the books and do at least one post a month, after reading the posts. Didn't make it.
It's always been a charming dream to read in the "chat" parts of the site & I've had the thought, "maybe when I retire..."
I really enjoy hearing from all of you!

What Karen said: it's always scary to contemplate change, but it may end up being just fine. I do hope that if we switch platforms there will be instruction which amounts to tender leading- by- the -hand.
I'm invisible due to (a) work and (b) because I'm trying to write a book. Writing is a lot of fun but it consumes Infinite Quantities of Time.

The very best to you!// Meredith

[Pat Floyd]

As one of those people who doesn't react well to change, I will say that the more information I am given, the better I can adapt. We have been talking in generalities about what would change, how it would work. When "Goodreads" has come up, I have been one of those who said "Oh no, not that!" Are we talking about attaching ourselves to "Goodreads?" Please, no one come on and tell me how easy it is to use and start detailing directions. If that's what we are talking about, then I will hold my nose and learn to use it! I just want the blanks filled in. And I understand if no definite plans are currently available, I can wait. I would also be amenable to helping somehow. My current skill level is low but I am a good learner. Jennifer

I belong to Goodreads, but I don't use it except to read an occasional book review. However, going back to John's first post and clicking on the Nightstand link which is on Goodreads, I could imagine going to Goodreads and ignoring everything except the VBC forum, having our own threads and proceeding much as we do now.

[Pat Floyd]

I was surprised to learn by way of an e-mail how much of Vicki's time is involved in screening out spammers and undesirable people. Vicki, would some of that be done for us on another site?

Something I would like to have preserved somewhere is the archives of our discussions. I occasionally refer to them and have also searched them for clues of what we might like to read and discuss. I also value our photographs, especially John's nature photography and Alice's photos of the England trip; however, keeping them may present more problems.

[Donna]

First, let me say thank you to Laurie for purchasing and hosting this site. It is a generous gift and obviously much appreciated. Thank you.

Second, I understand the issues a bit better now; it's really a time problem. I don't know how I can help solve that one. I suspect, as most of us do, that this is a 'free time' and most enjoyable sort of 'hobby'; we are here because we love the books Laurie writes, love talking to people who also enjoy her work, like mysteries in general (though our individual tastes vary) and find chatting with friends a wonderful part of our day. But that doesn't mean that most of us would have more time to devote - as much as we may want to - to keeping things running. Just learning how would be a considerable commitment.

Third, we don't want to lose the essentials: talking about Laurie's books, talking to each other about this and that, supporting each other when appropriate, indulging in the fun of mystery fiction... And of course, keeping our archives.

I would be happy with any solution that meets those essentials while - for me - remaining a leisure pursuit. I'm sorry I can't commit more than that, and I realize being unable to give more time may mean not having what so far we've been able to enjoy together. That saddens me and yet there are times cost realities do require consideration.

I, for one, certainly feel Laurie's time is better used to write rather than run this site. It is, after all, her chosen profession, means of support and what drew us together in the first place.

I've been doing some research: don't really know how helpful it is... but have found information at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_social_networking_software
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites
http://social-networking.findthebest.com/


Just looking at the lists was a daunting enterprise, not to mention trying to figure out how these sites work - and I didn't get far with that, then trying to determine their potential for us... Vicki is our expert - thank goodness - and I trust she can advise us well.

What it really comes down to is that our leadership needs to make a decision and we (as Karen pointed out) will be happy to adapt. My own time varies considerably - there are days I just don't have time to visit and chat but others that I love spending an hour or two here with you all... Just knowing how to continue doing that is fine with me.

Again, thank you to all who have made this site possible and allowed such wonderful friendships to develop and grow. I really appreciate your efforts on behalf of us all. Thank you Laurie and Zoe, John, Vicki, Pat and any others I should have mentioned. Thank you so much.

[SCWillson]

That sounds an awful lot like an an epitaph.

[Donna]

Oh, I hope not, Steve. I would miss your witty, even droll comments. :D


To completely change the subject; Millie, how's Paul?

[SCWillson]

Oh, I hope not, Steve. I would miss your witty, even droll comments. Hey! I'm witty and droll! Who knew? :)

[Millie]

Hey! I'm witty and droll! Who knew? :)

We all knew! And I love the addition to your tag line, BTW!!:)

[SCWillson]

We all knew! And I love the addition to your tag line, BTW!!:)Spare my blushes. :o



(Honesty I didn't think anyone had even noticed the change in the tag line.)

[Jennifer]

Steve,
I don't think we are dead yet and besides, you seem to be developing a bunch of groupies so I wouldn't count any of us out yet! We have to stick together because talking to you about the gazillions of books you read is just too much fun. And forcing you to listen to the latest weird thing I have come up with is therapeutic for me! (Much cheaper than therapy!)
J

[vicki]

Okay--sorry for the delay--had family in from out of town and a couple of rush projects I had to hammer on. Here is the first of our lovely contestants--a Goodreads.com test community (http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/64419.Laurie_R_King_Virtual_Book_Club). It's very basic right now, and it's set to "secret," so no one can find it without the link.

You'll need to join goodreads to be added to the community, but you can log in through facebook, twitter, or google, which makes it a little easier to log in if you're on one of those services. Don't feel like you have to fill out all your profile info just to try out the community--you can use a bare bones profile for the trial period if you like, and wait to hang pictures and set out the knick-knacks until we make a platform decision.

As with all the trial platforms, there are advantages and disadvantages here. No one platform will be perfect, but if we do enough tire-kicking, we can find one that is a good fit.

[Lenore]

I am a member of Goodreads, and I logged in, and it wouldn't let me access the group. Instead, I got a message in red saying "Sorry, that group is secret." What am I doing wrong?

[vicki]

The "secret" option is a little too restrictive, methinks. I reduced the setting to private. See if that gives you a "join group" button.

http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/64419.Laurie_R_King_Virtual_Book_Club

Once you click the button to join, you just have to be approved by a mod, and then you're in. If we decide to stay there, we can open it up more.

[vicki]

Here is the second of our lovely contestants--say hello to our trial community on Lefora (http://laurierking.lefora.com/)!

It's pretty bare bones and there doesn't appear to be the ability to login via FB and twitter, etc, but it's very simple and has some potential, I think. In the event you see some ads, we can get rid of those for a reasonable monthly fee, but we'll see how the trial goes first.

[AmyLizzie]

Ok, I've tried out both and I'm a fan of goodreads, easy to use, nice layout, functional, love the photos adding facility and the fact I can do my own thing and still be part of various groups. Love it, definitely gets my vote, I found the other site very difficult to navigate and it's no where near as sparkly! :)

[vicki]

Cool--glad you like it! Here is an invite code (http://www.goodreads.com/group/invite/64419.Laurie_R_King_Virtual_Book_Club?invite_key=c ceabd92082b4a044866f16dceab06fe69dca4dc&utm_medium=email&utm_source=copypastegroup) for the goodreads group, which may cut a step or two in the process.

[Millie]

I prefer Goodreads too, I think.

[SCWillson]

I've applied to join the Goodreads VBC. Hopefully a moderator will approve me. ;)

[donatello77]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Please say it ain't so.

[Jennifer]

I applied and was accepted! Made a comment (not brilliant, but acceptable!). I don't know if I like the format but if we stick together, I am sure I will be able to handle it...
Jennifer

[Strawberry Curls]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Please say it ain't so.Sorry the welcome is so short-lived here, but change is a-coming, and for some of us who have been here since June 2007, it is harder than for others. :)

[SCWillson]

I am unenthusiastic about the whole GoodReads thing but I guess that is the only plausible way to keep this community together.

Some official e-mail notification as to when this forum finally shuts down would be appreciated. As it is I'm popping back and forth several times per day to see if there are new posts.

[Meags2387]

Hmmm. I just got a message on Goodreads from farmwife and was interested. I admit I haven't been around here in ages. I don't like to see this place shut down, but I understand what Laurie is facing with this site. This was the first online community I ever joined and it has been a wonderful introduction to what a good online community can be, but I also see that I have moved on for one reason or another. I still enjoy hearing from this site and I still keep in touch with some of the members on goodreads, so I think there is potential for keeping up with people even if the VBC were to move to another location. And quite frankly, unless some of the problems that Laurie presented can be addressed, I would have to say that the VBC's survival at this particular venue seems slim.

[Lenore]

Here is the second of our lovely contestants--say hello to our trial community on Lefora (http://laurierking.lefora.com/)!



I sent a request for admission a couple of days ago, and got an email saying my request had been forwarded to the moderator, but then nothing. Is this a bug in the joining mechanism, or are you purposely ignoring me?:D

[vicki]

Sorry you had trouble, Lenore. I'm not sure why that was, unless it was possibly a problem with the initial "secret" setting I used, which was waaay more restrictive than I intended. I'm just glad it's sorted now!

Oh, here is our lovely third contestant: our trial community at proboards.com (http://laurierking.proboards.com/index.cgi).

Admittedly, it's not likely to win any beauty contests. It's got a very circa 2004 look, but it's got some nice posting features, and the platform has been around for a while and gathered a small but loyal community around the platform. So go over there and see what you think.

The lefora trial community (http://laurierking.lefora.com/) also awaits any tire-kicking you wish to do, and I'll be setting up another trial space on ninjapost, which is a newer site with some more modern features and what appears to be easier social network logons than proboards or lefora. Here is a sample community (http://forum.everlybrothers.net/) on ninjapost.

BTW--don't worry if you see some ads on proboards or lefora. If we decide to stay, we can get rid of the ads. The ads are non-negotiable on goodreads, but they're *book* ads, generally speaking, which I can live with more easily that belly fat ads and pharmaceutical pitches.

[vicki]

So sorry, Donatello--I know it stinks to come in the front door only to find out that the movers are taking the furniture to the truck out back. But I think we can move the electronic yurt successfully, if we take the time to evaluate the options thoroughly, reach a consensus, and let people get comfortable with a new format. It's still *us* after all. And, in any venue, we really do rock.

[Lenore]

Sorry you had trouble, Lenore. I'm not sure why that was, unless it was possibly a problem with the initial "secret" setting I used, which was waaay more restrictive than I intended. I'm just glad it's sorted now!



Sorry, but it's not fixed yet. I'm STILL awaiting moderator approval on Lefora.

[vicki]

Ugh--I thought you were talking about goodreads. Sorry--you're approved now. I never got a notice that a new member was awaiting approval on lefora, and it wasn't on my front page of the forum, not that I could see anyway. Not too good. Not a deal-breaker, since I can tweak my email notification settings and learn better where I need to look for that info (although it should be right on my front page, I think), but that goes into the "con" column. I think I may set the lefora forum to "open" (no approval required) and see if we get overrun by spam registrations the way we do on vbulletin.

<edit> Membership is now open. So y'all can join without having to wait for approval.

[MaryL]

Will try all of these at home-the Hospital/Work owned system won't let me on any of them-but the VBC is apparently OK-or grandfathered from before the paranoia about non-work related sites. I say if they insist I be in the office 12-14 hours a day they need to let me on the computer during the nurses' lunch. Can't always be reading journal articles, they run together and the brain refuses to process info. Or spell correctly.

[Lenore]

Oh, here is our lovely third contestant: our trial community at proboards.com (http://laurierking.proboards.com/index.cgi).

. . .

The lefora trial community (http://laurierking.lefora.com/) also awaits any tire-kicking you wish to do, and I'll be setting up another trial space on ninjapost, which is a newer site with some more modern features and what appears to be easier social network logons than proboards or lefora. Here is a sample community (http://forum.everlybrothers.net/) on ninjapost.



Have you actually set up the ninjapost site yet? I haven't found a link to it.

I have tried out both Lefora and Proboards, but I'm getting the feeling that I am the only one who has ventured beyond Goodreads. Which is really too bad, because, despite some features not working quite as advertised, I think I actually like Proboards better than Goodreads because it has more of the same "feel" as this platform. I know a lot of people are already on Goodreads -- heck, I was on Goodreads even before we started browsing platforms -- but somehow I just don't like it as well.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, dear, I go away for awhile and miss all the excitement!

I am afraid I am one of those people who visits without logging in and posting. Bad Elizabeth.

I am a member on GoodReads, but with all the scandals and drama going on over there recently I'm not sure how much longer I will be. It's a shame, because it is such a great idea for a community.

I looked at the lefora and proboards, but am confused: as message boards, how are they really different from this message board? Yes, there are lots of topics here, but that's a benefit, I think. You can dip in wherever you like.

As for what would make me more active:

1. More time.
2. A more outgoing personality.
3. Perhaps a monthly newsletter briefly mentioning discussions that were going on? To nudge my memory, you see. :) I used to receive a newsletter from Laurie but haven't for months and months, and I think a separate one with mentions of meet-ups, new discussions, etc. might drum up more activity.

I enjoy the boards as they are, but I am very bad as a poster. The statistics might show business is down, so to speak, but I think it's working for letting me know when I can buy Laurie's books!

[SCWillson]

Given the dearth of postings over the past few days, may we this forum is now dead? And has it been decided that Goodreads is the new venue?

[vicki]

What scandals and drama are going on re: goodreads? Would be good to know, I guess. Maybe I should check into the librarian threads.

Steve, this forum is still open for posting, but I'm posting announcements telling people to come over and see us on goodreads, so they'll know the action has migrated. After the ninjapost trial, we can decide whether to make goodreads home.

[SCWillson]

What scandals and drama are going on re: goodreads? Would be good to know, I guess. Maybe I should check into the librarian threads.

Steve, this forum is still open for posting, but I'm posting announcements telling people to come over and see us on goodreads, so they'll know the action has migrated. After the ninjapost trial, we can decide whether to make goodreads home.OK, thanks.


*Crosses fingers and prays we find a better site than Goodreads*

[jtb1951]

Anyone willing to test out the ninjapost test site can find it here: http://vbc.laurierking.com/. The folks who have tried it out today seem pretty pleased with it. I think folks are finding it simpler and more user friendly, and even comfortable, than goodreads. Come try it out!

John.

[SCWillson]

I think folks are finding it simpler and more user friendly, and even comfortable, than goodreads. Come try it out.Absolutely. While I liked the vast array of options at vBulletin, the simplicity of Ninjapost goes a long way to making it more user friendly than Goodreads.

[Elizabeth]

What scandals and drama are going on re: goodreads?

From what I've read, a reviewer wrote a bad review for a book. The author responded with some rather personal attacks. Other people responded to support the reviewer's right to dislike a book, then the author's fans got involved, it spread to other threads, etc. Another problem is that it has been rumoured/revealed (depending on who you read/believe) that some authors have set up reviewing syndicates both there and on Amazon: they leave a bunch of good reviews for each other to help sell the books.

It just all seems so adolescent to me. :( I think it's calmed down a bit, but it was a bit of a mess for awhile.