The Discussion

[vicki]

I just got this video in my email and thought of this discussion because of Laurie's mention of the song "American Pie" in the introductory notes to this discussion.

It features Dr. Jim Salem of the University of Alabama deciphering the song, including the historical, cultural and musical references, many of which I wasn't familiar with, despite growing up not too long after the time span addressed in the song (mid 50s to late 60s).

P.S. Kerry, you're probably right about the ambiguity working well in the book, but it still jangles a bit when I think about it from what I imagine--through my own particular lens--to be the wife's point of view. But a little jangling isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course; we can all use a little shaking up on occasion.

[Shaybo]

I just started to reread To Play The Fool and I found it to say the least interesting. Here's Kate trying to understand what Brother Erasmus is saying and getting frustrated by the minute. Until she recognizes a quote from The Bible and mistakes it for a confession, but I have one question How can anyone communicate that way?

[Canzonett]

Originally Posted by Shaybo

How can anyone communicate that way?

Shaybo, it works. As anyone who has been involved very deeply and intensely with a very rich text (or corpus of texts) will tell you, the texts will start spilling out into your life and soaking it sooner or later. I remember singing Bach's "St. John Passion" some years ago with the church choir I was singing in at the time. Our days were literally filled with that music, since we went on a concert trip to Rome where we sang the JoPa three times, three days in a row. Already on the second day, we were speaking in quotes.

[Shaybo]

Originally Posted by Canzonett

Shaybo, it works. As anyone who has been involved very deeply and intensely with a very rich text (or corpus of texts) will tell you, the texts will start spilling out into your life and soaking it sooner or later. I remember singing Bach's "St. John Passion" some years ago with the church choir I was singing in at the time. Our days were literally filled with that music, since we went on a concert trip to Rome where we sang the JoPa three times, three days in a row. Already on the second day, we were speaking in quotes.

Whoa that's cool.

[Pat Floyd]

Another cool thing that happens is that writers will incorporate phrases or a modification of a poetic phrase--often I expect subconsciously, sometimes deliberately. I'm not knowlegeable enough to catch all of them. Yesterday I noted two--one slips my mind. The other partook of Lawrence Binyon's stanza said on Rememberance Day in England:

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

What I was reading used "age shall not weary" (then something else) followed by "in the morning we will remember" giving an appropriate flavor of WWI.

[Shaybo]

Originally Posted by Pat Floyd

Another cool thing that happens is that writers will incorporate phrases or a modification of a poetic phrase--often I expect subconsciously, sometimes deliberately. I'm not knowlegeable enough to catch all of them. Yesterday I noted two--one slips my mind. The other partook of Lawrence Binyon's stanza said on Rememberance Day in England:

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

What I was reading used "age shall not weary" (then something else) followed by "in the morning we will remember" giving an appropriate flavor of WWI.

That is beautiful. I think that's appropriate for any war.

[Canzonett]

I guess that the mechanism behind this quoting phenomenon has to do something with "scaffolding" in the broadest sense. You'll observe something similar with small children who will enthusiastically use phrases from books their parents have been reading to them, with proverbs or with certain "pop culture" sentences. Your brain will absorb these things and recycle them because they provide you with effective language chunks. You don't have to construct new sentences from scratch, you can simply use the chunks and thoughts that others have effectively used before already.

[Shaybo]

With Brother Erasmus it was a promise to his familly not to use his own words, so he wouldn't hurt anyone again.